Source: formulanone/Flickr

Mayor Bill de Blasio won a victory in Albany early this morning when both houses of the state legislature gave the green light to lowering the New York City speed limit from 30 miles per hour to 25 miles per hour.

After concerns earlier this week that Senate Republicans could prevent the bill from coming to a vote, it passed overwhelmingly in both houses and has been sent to Governor Andrew Cuomo for his signature.

The measure is a key item of de Blasio’s Vision Zero initiative, which seeks to make streets safer and eliminate traffic deaths citywide. Several of the initiative’s proposals require approval from state lawmakers, including speed limits and the installation of speed cameras.

The idea was first floated by the mayor earlier this year, but received a tepid response from lawmakers. It became increasingly politicized, with Senate Republicans threatening to block it from coming to a vote as retribution for de Blasio’s calls for returning that legislative body to Democratic control. Senator Andrew Lanza, a Republican representing Staten Island, suggested as recently as yesterday afternoon that he would oppose the measure if it did not fold in his proposal to require stop signs be installed around all city schools.

Ultimately, de Blasio and traffic safety advocates won out in a down-to-the-wire vote during the season’s final legislative session in the capital. The bill was passed 106-13 by the Assembly in a late night session, while the Senate took it up early in the morning, passing it 58-2.

An earlier version of the bill called for the speed limit to be reduced to 20 miles per hour, but was quickly squashed by legislative leaders.

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  • Brightonresident

    Hopefully the law included enforcement of jaywalking laws and insistance that bike riders follow the rules of the road! And I presume that Mayor DeBlasio’s travel will follow the law at all times as well!

    • Alex

      Brightonresident,
      you live in NYC, man.
      There’ll always be jaywalking no matter how strict the laws are.

  • Alex

    CUT ME A BREAK!!
    25 mph?
    Those crazy bastards drive thru residential streets at 50-60 mph like its a normal thing.
    It is definitely more revenue for the city!

    • Igor

      I think that we should go back to the old ghosts. Bring back the “Model T” I say. Cars driving at a few miles per hour will still cause criminals to be criminals. Russians qwill start killing over parking spaces. No not for the SUV, but for the “Model T”

    • Jean

      You say it likes it a bad thing. More money for the city can only help with programs that need the help. And maybe they crazy bastards will start to slow down after they get ticketed a few times. It could happen.

      • GaryT

        The new Mayor eats at DiFara, where his groupies, the hippy Brooklynites chill. Let him go after most other Pizza shops in Brooklyn, which employ illegals. For a Democrat, the new Mayor is more out of touch than any Republican would be. The city is 85% percent minority, but he surrounds and insulates himself with a mostly white staff. The previous administration had more racial diversity.

  • Local Broker

    Another ridiculous law passed in a “late night session”. Did any of the pols talk to their constituents to find out how the people feel about it? Did everyone get a chance to read the law fully before voting? What a joke.

    • Anne

      Why, yes, they did. They called me and asked what I thought of it. I told them to go ahead and make the necessary changes. I received a PDF before the late night session, and it was all good to go.

      Are you saying that you didn’t get a phone call? Huh, how ’bout that.

  • Do they drive?

    35 MPH for a school bus

    5 MPH walking home
    6 MPH is walking to work
    7 MPH running
    10 MPH bicycle riding
    1 MPH is walking with a sugary drink
    2 MPH if smoking cigarette
    8 MPH if smoking marijuana
    45 MPH is driving to vote for Di Blasio
    100 MPH is your are Di Blasio friend

    No speed limit if you get pulled over and prove that you are part of NYPD
    How often does a Police Officer get tickets?

    This make make more revenue for the city than Marijuana

    Please bring Bloomberg Back.

    • http://www.mybrooklyn.com/ MyBrooklyn

      No speed limit if you get pulled over and prove that you are part of NYPD
      How often does a Police Officer get tickets? People are idiots to believe everyone is playing by rules…..only people that struggle and frustrated with this abuse are people who need to get to point a to b…the real criminals that avoid so called laws are sub humans aka pigs, criminals aka law makers and crooks aka politicians…

    • nolastname

      Ya’ had me until you wanted Bloomshit back.

    • ArnietheK

      I agreed with you until your last sentence.

  • http://www.mybrooklyn.com/ MyBrooklyn

    Let the extortion begin by pigs and their masters law makers and politicians, meanwhile same group of criminals that go out after everyday people stay above the “law”

  • http://www.mybrooklyn.com/ MyBrooklyn

    F@#$ this city and people who are in charge…bunch of thieves and liars. When people wake up to these abuse and extortion from criminals…when enough is enough. To a naïve people…do you really think its all in the name of safety then you must be a moron

  • http://www.mybrooklyn.com/ MyBrooklyn

    oh abd BTW this Mayor jack ass is hiring additional 1000 pigs

    And he allocated another $6 million to hire 200 police administrative aides – the Council had asked for 1,000 additional cops on the streets

    I recommend people who want to avoid laws or just to get pay decent salary please apply for nypd thug department….its better then being unemployed and not having money

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/mayor-de-blasio-city-council-announced-on-time-75-billion-budget-blog-entry-1.1837062

    • Supporter of Left Handed Rule

      Hi there MyBk….who told you that Mayor Jack Sss is hiring 1000 more cops? You must be reading news from an alternate universe. Please stop making stuff up. There is enough stupidity from City Hall without your help.

  • Matthew Schless

    The total lack of police enforcement against unlicensed motor scooters and silent electric bicycles used by take-out restaurants is my concern. I wish our new mayor would address this danger.

    • Anonymouse

      Would you rather all those delivery boys in a car? Lets just create more bike lanes…. Those electric bikes are the greatest inventions. Its not like they allow motor bikes on these streets. Lets just take all the life out of life! When is it enough already…

    • nolastname

      If they did not drive the wrong way on a one way street or did not ride the sidewalk it would be OK with me. I always wanted to own a takeout restaurant….provided I got hit by their delivery/owner person. lol

  • Subway Stinker

    Lowering the speed limit to 25 is totally pandering to the Anti Car zealots created by former Mayor B.Berg. I guarantee that the nitwits and halfwits who race along Ocean Parkway and Eastern Parkway will not obey the new speed limit signs, just as they ignored the old speed limit signs. Why do some people think that passing ‘feel good legislation’ makes a difference to our quality of life.? Comment as you see fit.

    • MyBrooklyn

      Well reason for this legislation is to show us that they pretend like they are doing something. Also more easily to extort money from people meanwhile the liars and thieves are above the law I am referring to the same people that come up with imaginary laws

      • BrooklynBus

        Anyone now going 36 mph on Ocean Parkway which is not at all dangerous will now receive a big fine as soon as the cameras go in and you know it will be the first street where they will install the cameras.

        They won’t put cameras on the narrow side streets where it makes some sense to go 25.

        Ocean Parkway will also seem twice as congested as everyone slows down when they pass the cameras and then resumes their normal speed. Who is measuring the effect on air pollution and on the asthma rates from increased traffic congestion? No one.

        Did Cymbrowitz and Golden vote for this? If so, they both lost my vote.

        • MyBrooklyn

          BrooklynBus thank you for speaking common sense….average drivers get screwed everyday from poor roads conditions to fees, tickets, points system and so called driver responsibillity assement programs (since 2004) extortion program….I am 35 years old and I have family to support and my car makes a big difference how flexibale i can be to get things done. I am not sure why naive fools think these so called law makers, politicians and cops are working for safety……its all nonsense. Oh well as long as they are getting away with this abuse and as long as we have enough naive people to beleive them….thats how it will stay. When people wake up already…

        • fdtutf

          “Anyone now going 36 mph on Ocean Parkway which is not at all dangerous”

          for drivers, who are the only ones who count, of course

          “will now receive a big fine as soon as the cameras go in and you know it will be the first street where they will install the cameras.

          “They won’t put cameras on the narrow side streets where it makes some sense to go 25.”

          Um, yeah, what would be the point of putting enforcement cameras on streets where people already obey the speed limit?

          “Ocean Parkway will also seem twice as congested as everyone slows down when they pass the cameras and then resumes their normal speed. Who is measuring the effect on air pollution and on the asthma rates from increased traffic congestion? No one.”

          I didn’t realize that the *perception* of traffic congestion, as opposed to actual congestion, caused asthma. Where did you hear that?

          • BrooklynBus

            It is not the perception of traffic congestion. It is more congestion caused by more stopping and starting due to slower speeds and cars standing longer without moving.

            Who says people are already going 25 on side streets?

            “So drivers are the only ones who count?”

            In your mind everyone must go slower to accommodate pedestrians who decide to cross mid block whenever they feel like it so they won’t get killed. You know what? Have them cross on the corners like they supposed to. Walking anywhere you please at any time and forcing cars to stop short for you, is not a God given right, in spite of What you think.

            Look at the other comments. I don’t see anyone supporting your position. The overwhelming opinion is that a default speed limit of 25 mph is just ridiculous and another stupid law we don’t need. It’s only being done to generate revenue as anyone with any sense will tell you. It is just to give the appearance tat politicians are

          • BrooklynBus

            doing something in the name of safety. It won’t stop the maniacs who will continue to drive at 60 mph on city streets.

          • Andrew

            You are not a traffic engineer. You do not understand what causes traffic congestion.

            Slightly over half of pedestrian traffic fatalities are 100% the fault of the driver. Only 30% are the fault of the pedestrian alone. What would you suggest we do about the pedestrians who are killed while crossing the street legally or while not crossing the street at all?

          • BrooklynBus

            Lowering the speed limit will not prevent cars from veering out of control onto the sidewalks. Lowering the speed limit will only reduce pedestrian fatalities for this crossing where they are not supposed to be crossing if drivers even slow down at all. No one abides by unrealistic speed limits. All you have to do to realize that is drive every day which you do not. Yet you pretend to know everything by citing a few statistics.

            What would I do? Better driver education before and after you get your license. Periodic retesting of written tests, and road tests for those over 70. Laws change and people need to review the drivers manual every few years. Most drivers never look at the drivers manual again after passing the road test. Lowering speed limits to unrealistic levels, increasing traffic congestion and air pollution and travel times, and generally harassing drivers for the purpose of increasing revenue are not the answers. Going after dangerous drivers is, not fining drivers going 36 mph.

            I understand the causes of traffic congestion better than you do. I drive. You rarely drive except when you rent a car to go out of town. You know nothing about why people need to drive in this city. You just pretend to know everything. A degree does not mean anything. When I cite mine in Urban Planning, you dismiss it because I received one forty years ago. Even if I had a traffic engineering degree, you would dismiss it. You just have an answer for everything, don’t you? But you actually don’t know very much at all. Your degree is in arguing even when you know nothing.

          • fdtutrf

            “Lowering the speed limit will not prevent cars from veering out of control onto the sidewalks.”

            Well, yeah, it probably will in some cases. The faster your car is going, the more difficult it is to control and the more skill that requires.

            “Lowering the speed limit will only reduce pedestrian fatalities for this crossing where they are not supposed to be crossing if drivers even slow down at all. No one abides by unrealistic speed limits.”

            What crossing are you talking about? And unfortunately, pedestrians frequently get hit when they are crossing at the corners where they are “supposed to.” Lower speeds will at least transform a lot of those crashes from fatalities into injuries.

            What’s “realistic”? Who decides what’s realistic? You? I don’t think so.

            “I understand the causes of traffic congestion better than you do. I drive.”

            The actual causes of traffic congestion are not obvious, and driving doesn’t really help you understand them.

          • BrooklynBus

            Yes you are so correct. Someone going at 25 has so much less of a chance to mount the sidewalk than someone going at 30. It’s called knowing how to drive. Unfortunately we have too many people who drive and are thinking about something else rather than driving even for a split second which is all that it takes to lose control.

            If drivers don’t adhere to the 30 mph speed limit now, even fewer will adhere to a 25 mph speed limit. And no one should be taking a turn at 25 or 30 mph anyway. The speed limit has nothing to do with pedestrians crossing at corners. Shows how much you know. You are the one who is totally unrealistic. And the causes of traffic congestion are quite obvious. It is not rocket science. Driving certainly helps you to understand the causes.

          • fdtutf

            “It’s called knowing how to drive. Unfortunately we have too many people who drive and are thinking about something else rather than driving even for a split second which is all that it takes to lose control.”

            Correct…and the slower they’re going when that happens, the less likely it is that their loss of control will have damaging consequences of any kind.

            At 25 mph, you travel about 37 feet in one second; at 30 mph, you travel about 44 feet. Seven feet can certainly be the difference between crashing and recovering control before you crash.

            “If drivers don’t adhere to the 30 mph speed limit now, even fewer will adhere to a 25 mph speed limit. And no one should be taking a turn at 25 or 30 mph anyway.”

            Lowering the speed limit is, of course, ineffective alone. As several of us have said several times, we also need (1) physical changes to the roadway to discourage speeding, and (2) enforcement.

            And you don’t want either of those, as you’ve loudly proclaimed several times, which forces me to conclude you just want pedestrians to continue dying at the hands of motorists.

            “The speed limit has nothing to do with pedestrians crossing at corners. Shows how much you know.”

            I didn’t say it did. Learn to read.

            “And the causes of traffic congestion are quite obvious. It is not rocket science. Driving certainly helps you to understand the causes.”

            Your comments have amply disproved that statement.

          • Andrew

            The actual causes of traffic congestion are not obvious, and driving doesn’t really help you understand them.

            In fact, an actual traffic engineer posted on Sheepshead Bites quite explicitly that a speed limit reduction to 25 mph would, in practice, not create congestion, because capacity is limited by traffic signals.

            But what does he know? Obviously he doesn’t drive.

          • fdtutf

            It’s not the perception of traffic congestion? Then why did you say this:

            “Ocean Parkway will also seem twice as congested”

            I didn’t pick the word “seem”; you did.

            “In your mind everyone must go slower to accommodate pedestrians who decide to cross mid block whenever they feel like it so they won’t get killed. You know what? Have them cross on the corners like they supposed to.”

            Great idea, because pedestrians never, never, never, ever get killed when they cross at the corners. Except when they do. Over and over again. Andrew’s given you multiple examples before, but you choose to ignore them.

          • BrooklynBus

            It will seem twice as congested because it will be twice as congested if drivers adhere to a 25 mph speed limit. But they wont, so it there will be no difference until cameras are installed. And then the congestion will happen only where the cameras are installed.

          • fdtutf

            It’ll be congested, except it won’t, except it will in some places? Make up your mind!

          • BrooklynBus

            Until they put up cameras, it won’t make a damn of a difference because no one will drive at 25 just like no one drives at 30 right now. Most do 35 if traffic permits.

            When the cameras go in, people will learn where they are in a short period of time and traffic will slow down and congestion will form a block or two before the cameras and the coast will be clear again the block after the cameras.

            Is that clear enough for you?

          • Andrew

            As I said before, you’re making an excellent argument for the city to install speed cameras everywhere. Unfortunately, Albany won’t allow it – yet.

          • fdtutf

            Yes. It’s amply clear to me that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

            It would be nice if you understood that slow-moving traffic and congestion are not the same thing. Especially not when the slow-moving traffic is due to motorists actually obeying the speed limits for a change. “I can’t go as fast as I’d like to” does not equal congestion.

        • Mat50

          Reading the new law to be: parkways and expressways are not affected by the 25mph limit. Ocean Parkway is exempt. So never fear, they will still drive at 50+ and hit as many cars, trees, pedestrians and bicyclists as you seem to accept as “normal”.

          • abc

            The name of a street is not its designation of an expressway or highway.

          • Mat50

            Ocean Parkway was specifically mentioned as not affected by the new “25″. It is a partially state managed roadway, according to the piece I read.

          • BrooklynBus

            Where did you read that? Eastern Parkway was on the 25 mph slow speed list. Why would they exempt Ocean Parkway?

          • Mat50

            Streetsblog

        • nolastname

          Let’s not forget school zone is double the fine. By the way idling laws are not even being enforced near schools. ;-)

        • Andrew

          But on April 25 you said this:

          The design speed for typical conditions was probably 35 mph which was why a speed limit of 30 was chosen. You should never approach an intersection at a speed greater than 30 mph. When I stated that 35 was safe, up I was talking about midblock in optimal conditions with no one around, not when there are cars traveling on either or both sides of you. I also may have stated that 40 also would be safe, but only for very brief periods of time like five seconds. I never meant to imply that a steady speed of 40 would be safe, certainly not across any intersections.

          Since you can’t have variable speed limits for every occasion, 30 is the correct speed limit for the road.

          And now you suddenly claim that 36 mph is “not at all dangerous”? Do you change your mind every two months?

          By the way, the objective here, in case you’ve forgotten already, is to improve safety for pedestrians. What a driver feels is a safe speed for drivers is not particularly relevant.

          You’ve made an excellent argument to saturate the street with speed cameras, by the way.

          • BrooklynBus

            When I stated 40 would be safe, I do not mean it would always be safe to do put your foot on the gas and do 40 mph for five minutes. You drive as the conditions permit. When te signal turns green it is usually safe to hit 40 for a brief time lie five or ten seconds, ten coast until you drop down to 30 and slow down further as your watch the intersection. Under this law, you can’t accelerate past 25 mph which means to maintain that speed you can’t take your foot off the gas which not only wastes gas and takes longer but also causes you to miss more lights and extends your trip.

            I’m tired of having to explain every single nuance to you and Fdtutf

          • BrooklnBus

            of every single statement just so you can attempt to show I have been inconsistent when I haven’t. I will not continue. Just realize that you two are in the minority here. Virtually everyone else sees te foolhardiness of this law and the real purpose behind it which is not safety. It is revenue and the politicians voted for it to give the illusion they are pro-safety.

            The city will raise a fortune in revenue, which they only will squander on more waste and higher salaries. They won’t even reduce taxes. The middle class will continue to leave in droves as they get more fed up. Only the very rich and newly arrived immigrants will stay. Even the poor will leave because they won’t be able to afford to live here any more.

          • fdtutf

            “By the way, the objective here, in case you’ve forgotten already, is to improve safety for pedestrians.”

            Andrew, no! You have to understand that pedestrians and their needs are irrelevant. The only legitimate road users are motorists, and only their needs matter. Anybody else who wants to use the roads will do so at the sufferance and pleasure of motorists, take their leavings, and be content.

    • Glass Half

      ‘pandering to the anti car zealots’, seriously? i just can’t get past that,. haven’t stopped laughing since i read it…. every sentence is actually a gem…. well done.

  • winson

    Not gonna make much of a difference

  • nolastname

    Enforcing the 30 mph law all along would have been better. So to cover any liabilities they pull a BS move. Again it is a lack of quality of life issue. I saw a flatbed tractor trailer with containers on it hang a turn so fast that I thought he was going to at the least lose his load. This happened within view of a patrol car. A NEVER would have gone unnoticed outside of NYC. Sheepshead Bay streets are not made to support the new construction and delivery traffic none the less the erratic driving I have witnessed.

  • BadIdea

    This is not the way to go. Lowering the speed limit is equivalent to a tax on the economy. DeBlasio is, as is usual for people of his political persuasion, punishing the wrong people. Increased law enforcement and increased penalties will make our roads safer. The violators won’t lower their speed with deBlasio’s law; only the honest people will. Instead, catch the perpetrators and punish them: quickly and severely.

    • fdtutf

      But don’t you listen to BrooklynBus? We can’t have effective enforcement because that’s just a money-grabbing move by the city. So motorists have to be allowed to run wild.

      • BrooklynBus

        It’s not only BrooklynBus who believes that. It is virtually everyone else on this forum except you and Andrew! Wake up!

        • you-know-nothing-Allen-Rosen

          You’re not indicative of society as a whole. Hell, you’re not even indicative of this neighborhood. Stop being an obstructionist to safer neighborhoods. If you’re going to break the law then you’re going to pay. That’s not a money grab, that’s your own fucking fault based on your own fucking actions that you took on your own free will. The government doesn’t push the accelerator for you, and the government doesn’t make you run red lights. You do. Take some fucking responsibility for your actions before someone dies.

        • fdtutf

          You FINALLY admit that you think motorists just have to be allowed to run wild. Thank you. Now we really know where you stand.

          • BrooklynBus

            Nice try but you are both wrong. I was responding to the money grabbing statement that I said most everyone else agrees with, not your comment about motorists being allowed to to run wild. No one is for that except the irresponsible maniacs which I certainly am not part of.

            I am not being an obstructionist to safer neighborhoods and neither is anyone else who realizes the real purpose of this law, to raise a windfall in revenue as a false disguise to improving safety. Safety will not be improved. But the costs of living and doing business in the city most certainly will as bus schedules will all have to be rewritten to reflect lower speed limits and increased running time especially express buses which are expensive to operate to begin with. And any speeding tickets given to commercial vehicles will certainly be passed on to the consumer.

          • Andrew

            This is news to you?

          • fdtutf

            The fact isn’t news. The admission is new.

  • guest

    The streets are about to become a lot more dangerous. Bad move. Bad idea. Prepare for the carnage to come. Drivers, pedestrians and cyclists are now at a higher risk thanks to this. Nothing to do with safety and everything to do with money. The final phase of getting rid of the middle class has begun.

    • fdtutf

      How does lowering the speed limit put anyone at risk?

      • mbguest543

        Because the more you unreasonably restrict people the less overall compliance you will get with the law.

        Just make a pedestrian only cycle for each traffic light and keep the pedestrians and cars separated. No cars during the pedestrian cycle and no pedestrians during the car cycle. Leave the speed limit alone or even raise it on the arterials. Ticket the idiots going 70 on ocean parkway.

        But that wouldn’t be a big enough middle finger to middle class people using cars to satisfy the mob so it will never happen.

        • fdtutf

          “Because the more you unreasonably restrict people the less overall compliance you will get with the law.”

          That may be so (and I’d certainly quarrel with your characterization of this as “unreasonable”), but that doesn’t necessarily result in higher risk. Higher risk will only result if people actually start going faster, which a lower speed limit is unlikely to cause them to do. So I’m still puzzled about how this could result in higher risk.

          “Just make a pedestrian only cycle for each traffic light and keep the pedestrians and cars separated. No cars during the pedestrian cycle and no pedestrians during the car cycle.”

          Motorists will never allow that to happen.

          • mbguest543

            “Motorists will never allow that to happen.”

            Every motorist I ever talked to likes the idea. The idea of not having to deal with crowds at interesections and being able to make turns freely is very appealing. Where on earth do you get that from?

            As for the speed limit point it is very important not to breed contempt for the law by passing stupid laws. Squeezing people to make a point breeds contempt for the law and it will seep into other areas that matter far more than 5MPH of speed limit.

            Approach drivers like you want to solve a problem and you might just get some solutions. Approach us with middle fingers raised will accomplish nothing.

          • fdtutf

            “Every motorist I ever talked to likes the idea. The idea of not having to deal with crowds at interesections and being able to make turns freely is very appealing. Where on earth do you get that from?”

            Um, have you thought about how long the red phase would be with your idea implemented?

            “As for the speed limit point it is very important not to breed contempt for the law by passing stupid laws. Squeezing people to make a point breeds contempt for the law and it will seep into other areas that matter far more than 5MPH of speed limit.”

            The reason for this change is to save pedestrian lives, not “to make a point.”

            “Approach drivers like you want to solve a problem and you might just get some solutions. Approach us with middle fingers raised will accomplish nothing.”

            In other words: “We’ve got the power and we’re not afraid to use it, so don’t fsck with us.” Message received. Is that really who you want to be, though?

          • mbguest543

            I proposed a solution to keep everyone safe. You clearly aren’t interested in solutions, you want to hurt and harass people who did nothing to you.

            Your life must be very hard for you to care so much about the fight over solutions. We could have had a legitimate discussion. Oh well, enjoy being a zealot. When you grow up and have responsibilities that don’t fit neatly within the city’s mass transit system you’ll get yours.

          • fdtutf

            Would you mind translating that into coherent English?

          • guest

            My english was fine for general conversation. I hope you don’t drive. you clearly don’t have the aptitude for it.

          • fdtutf

            Actually, no, it wasn’t. I really could not make heads or tails of what you said. It was incoherent. So I couldn’t respond to it. Also, you didn’t bother to respond to any of the points I made in the comment before your incoherent one.

            Oh, well, I guess I’ll just have to live.

          • BrooklynBus

            He was quite clear. You are just unwilling to listen because you are so sure you are right.

          • StupidHipsters

            You and your pal Andrew are the reason, that people can not stand the hipster takeover of this city. You think you know everything because you look up everything on the internet and proclaim yourself as a professional in a subject. You come off as arrogant and self-righteous and you generally rub people the wrong way. Everything that does not comprehend into your warped mind of thinking is wrong.Those of us that don’t have time to play with our fancy typewriters and raise chickens in contaminated soil all day will tell you that everything you both have said is foolish. We all know you come from streetblog and transportation alternatives. You are giving the decent cyclists that frequent this board a bad name.

            25 MPH won’t solve anything. You can make the speed limit 10 MPH and it will not solve anything. It only punishes those that do not deserve to be punished. It has already been said when you push people over the edge, it will have dire consequences. You refuse to see this logic because of your overall hatred of anything with four or more wheels. Anyone that wants to be a jackass at a high speed is going to do so and no law is going to stop them. How the hell you can’t or just simply refuse to see this is beyond our comprehension.

          • BrooklynBus

            Well said.

            It will also increase road rage and cause more accidents when someone decides to obey the law and go at 25. If someone in all three lanes on Ocean Parkway decides to drive at 25 in all three lanes at the same time when there is no traffic, expect to hear a lot of horn blowing. So in addition to increased air pollution, higher costs for everything once enforcement begins, you can also expect more noise pollution and more road rage.

            Statistics will of course be manipulated to show what a huge success this has been with pertinent facts omitted as usual.

          • Andrew

            Let me see if I have this straight. If the city takes actions to prevent motorists from doing whatever the hell they want, and this makes some motorists angry, that is the fault of someone other than the motorists themselves.

            And if a group of motorists decide to illegally use their horns to announce that they want to move faster, that’s also the fault of someone other than the motorists themselves.

            Is that correct?

          • Andrew

            Translation:

            1. If you propose anything that might impede the ability of motorists to do whatever the hell they wish, regardless of the impacts to others, you are a zealot.

            2. All grown-ups with responsibilities own cars and drive everywhere. They are the only people who matter.

            Or something like that.

          • fdtutf

            THANK YOU. Finally someone who can express a point clearly, even if it isn’t his own.

          • mbguest543

            All caps is proper English now?

          • fdtutf

            It never wasn’t.

          • Andrew

            Every motorist I ever talked to likes the idea. The idea of not having to deal with crowds at interesections and being able to make turns freely is very appealing. Where on earth do you get that from?

            http://www.citylab.com/commute/2012/12/brief-history-barnes-dance/4189/
            “While most pedestrians loved the scramble, most drivers hated it. Since Barnes’s time, traffic engineers have fought the crossings on the basis that they create too much congestion, guided largely by level-of-service metrics that prize vehicle flow over all over types of movement. Meanwhile walking speeds slowed to 3.5 feet-per-second overthe years, requiring even longer pedestrian breaks. Conflicts can occur when pedestrians don’t hold for the all-clear because they’re accustomed to crossing with traffic.”
            This is rich. The same people who are arguing against a restoration of the 25 mph speed limit on the grounds that it will cause congestion (even though it won’t) are also arguing in favor of the Barnes Dance (which would most certainly cause a lot of congestion by reducing green time at each signalized intersection).

          • mbguest543

            It is a compromise that me and many other people would be willing to make to address the pedestrian safety issue as long as pedestrians do not try to cross while cars are turning.

            Compromise. Do any of the zealots above remember that word?

          • fdtutf

            I don’t know what happened to my comment, but I’m going to repeat part of it: Have you considered how long the red phase would be with this method? I’m pretty sure that after about two minutes’ experience with it, motorists would be wailing to the high heavens to have it eliminated again.

  • ShadowLock

    Go ahead and try to give me a ticket Mr Speed Camera….. 3:)

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