Source: Jaszek Photography via Flickr

A local advocate is proposing a marked bike lane on Emmons Avenue to make cycling on the busy stretch safer. The only problem is community leaders don’t care one iota for the plan.

The bike lane proposal was made public by City Councilman Lew Fidler after receiving the suggestion earlier in the year from constituent Lenny M. (Lenny asked to not have his last name published, fearing harassment from ferocious bike lane opponents). The plan pushes a marked lane on Emmons Avenue’s eastbound side, from Sheepshead Bay Road to Brigham Street where it would connect to the Plumb Beach bike path. In addition to perilous angled parking, the double-wide lane lends itself to impatient drivers who illegally pass double parked or turning cars.

According to Lenny, the plan offers more than just a safer road for cyclists: a narrower road would curb speeding and double parking, as well as keep bicyclists off the sidewalk.

“It would create a visible buffer between bicycle traffic and motorists. Seeing a bike lane, at minimum, would make drivers more aware of riders like myself who do not have the benefit of a few thousand pounds of steel and safety systems,” he said. “Without a safe place on the road some riders resort to riding on the sidewalk which puts children, mothers with strollers, and the elderly at risk. Bicyclists need a lane of our own.”

Lenny points out that the plan would cause no reduction in parking or usable roadway, and that the road is already deemed a bicycling route by New York City, though it’s currently unmarked.

But the arguments don’t seem to be persuading locals. Fidler brought the issue to stakeholders at the Sheepshead Bay – Plumb Beach Civic Association, Bay Improvement Group and Community Board 15, all of which balked at the suggestion.

“I sent a letter to all of our local civic associations and, surprise, surprise, got the unanimous response I expected, which is that Emmons Avenue is too congested for a bike lane,” Fidler reported back to the SBPB Civic last week.

Fidler himself thought it was a bad idea, but, in the spirit of legislation he sponsored and was recently passed, felt that the community as a whole should weigh in before it was dismissed outright.

For the SBPB Civic, the proposal came dead-on-arrival for the same reasons Lenny believes it’s a good idea.

“There’s too much congestion and anybody who goes down Emmons Avenue knows that,” stated SBPB Civic President Kathy Flynn. “Between the parking trying to back up into those parking spaces, blocking out the cars, the cars trying to save those extra two seconds by squeezing around them, the unloading and loading at the piers and businesses along Emmons Avenue – we don’t feel that it would be a safe aspect to have a bike lane on Emmons Avenue.”

Community Board 15 Chaiperson Theresa Scavo said the board’s opposition is based on logistics: the roadway just can’t fit both angled parking and a bike lane.

Scavo said she took her car down there herself after finding out about the proposal, and tried to park her car. What she found is that angled parking forces her to pull within inches of the curb, blocking off all of the traffic. With cars already stopped in the road, bicyclists would face additional risk.

“How do I park? I don’t care about the bikers on the sidewalk or cars passing – how do I park without the front tires of my car going into the bike lane?” she said. “There’s no way to park there without going to that curb, and you’re going to run over a person on a bike.”

Lenny, though, thinks the community is missing out on an opportunity.

“Whether we like it or not, New York City is becoming a bicycle city,” he said. “[Sheepshead Bay's] lack of infrastructure also makes us poor candidates for locations of NYC’s bike share program, despite our proximity to one of the best and most popular bike paths – and I may be reaching here, but I think of the lost commerce for local businesses because of that.”

What do you think of a bike path on Emmons Avenue?

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  • Kon

    The community is filled with to many old and fat people. The fat people should take advantage of the bike lanes and try to bike to lose some weight.

    • Cabbie

      amen. but you forgot ignorant.

  • BrooklynBus

    Has anyone even calculated how many additional parking spots, if any, the angle parking creates as opposed to just having parallel parking along the curb and along the median?  I’ve always hated the angled parking, finding it delays traffic and is inconvenient and awkward to park.  If there was just regular parking, bikes could share the right lane with traffic without any problem.

    • http://www.nedberke.com Ned Berke

      During our conversation, Scavo said it added 3-4 parking spots. 

      • http://www.nedberke.com Ned Berke

        I assumed that meant per block.

      • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

        That’s an inefficient use of space if the parking spots are roughly the length of a car in width. Why take away a whole lane to add 3-4 cars? Seems the congestion that’s used as an example is artificially created.

      • Kon

        What angle and width will the parking spots posses?

  • FYPM

    i Bike there all the time and a bike path is not going to change obnoxious drivers, its just going to give the 61 more reasons to give out tickets. Instead what they should do is put street cameras down emmons knowing how everyone speeds there .

    • CJ

      Tried that on highways in Arizona, these things won’t stand up and there will be a mass outcry against tickets for speeding by cameras.

  • Brightonresident

    Why not put the bike lane on the very wide sidewalk along the Bay.  You could separate the bikers from the peds. with those rubber cones used in the Battery Tunnel.

    • Anonymous

      the very wide sidewalk around the Bay was designed to accommodate all non motorized traffic – including bicycles and power chairs. Connecting to the new Brigham Park and Plumb Beach, out to Flatbush Avenue, Floyd Bennett or the golf course is just a no brainer. Speed bumps would slow down the Emmons Ave. drivers who are ramping up for the dash to the Belt. You don’t need cameras. 

      • http://www.njluxurymotors.com Arthur Borko

        Speed bumps would do squat. The only people who slow down are those with expensive cars.

        Don’t bother. We don’t need that shit.

        • Matt

          It would depend on the speed bump. I really like the large bump because that is a hard one to just plow through. Something needs to be done to slow down the folks.  With the increasing number of people and cars in this area, there is no way that we can stick to the status quo.

          • http://www.njluxurymotors.com Arthur Borko

            Correct, the solution however is not slowing down but finding a way to separate traffic and pedestrians going forward…

  • Guest

    It’s long overdue to have bike lane so BK residents can start thinking of getting into shape by biking

  • brooklyn native

    I would love a bike lane.  That said, I would NEVER use it there. Way too dangerous!
    Bad enough to just drive up/down Emmons, but to bike….  crazy.

  • Anonymous

    Lenny needs a serious beating. I love reading stories where imbeciles like Lenny end up crushed beneath the wheels of 18 Wheeled trucks.

    The sense of entitlement these bicyclers have is insatiable. NOT ONE MORE BICYCLE LANE. TEAR DOWN EVERY EXISTING ONE.

    • Kon

      Shut up fatty.

    • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

      Congrats, you got Lenny’s attention Mr. internet tough guy. The only sense of entitlement presented by anyone is by people such as yourselves who think that roads are there to accommodate you. The vitriol you spew by proclaiming your love of cyclists dying and the hate you project by suggesting I somehow need a beating does not make you fit for this earth. Go home, rethink your life, maybe make something of yourself and stop being the human stain that you are. You’re disgusting, I pity everything about your sorry existence.

      • http://www.njluxurymotors.com Arthur Borko

        You’re Lenny?

        • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

          Yes, and this is the response to why I asked Ned not to publish my last name. I asked this because I am not running for office (yet? ;) ) and my opinions are my own as a private citizen. My family might not agree with me and they should not be burdened with any sort of response my opinions might evoke. This handle/online identity can be traced back to me for accountability purposes and it’s one I use exclusively. I’m happy to discuss the merits of my opinions but I’m not a public figure and would like to retain a semblance of privacy.

          • http://www.njluxurymotors.com Arthur Borko

            I’m sorry sir, I disagree. When you’re endeavoring to change the lives of thousands of people you lose that anonymity.

            You’re not a witness at a crime scene. I’m not saying Ned or anyone should name you. That would be unethical. I’m saying YOU should name you, because you’re the one being unethical. If your family doesn’t agree with you perhaps you should re-examine your position.

            The bike lanes do not benefit the majority of people. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. 

            There is tons of room on the embankment the Belt is on. Clear away a few trees and put a bike path there…

          • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

            My own comfort level requires me to be open. But that is my choice. As it is yours. We can’t expect others to feel the same as we do. Lostinservice has the right to remain anonymous. As do many of the people who post here. They are not reporting the news, nor running this operation.

          • http://www.njluxurymotors.com Arthur Borko

            I didn’t mean he needs to reveal his name as a commenter on the site, but he’s going beyond that and approaching politicians about making major changes. THAT is where he loses his right to anonymity IMO.

          • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

            You and I obviously disagree with what level of disclosure is necessary, and I don’t know my family’s position on the bike path which is why I said might, to acknowledge that they _might_ have a difference of opinion. So all I’ll agree to disagree on that point.

            Bike lanes actually do benefit a lot of people, including motorists and pedestrians. This suggestion already has brought out support in the comments because a bike lane would not preclude efficient traffic on Emmons and in fact highlights the mass inefficiencies of the current set up on the Ave. Scavo, in different words, suggested that Emmons Ave has poorly planned infrastructure. What she demonstrated was how poorly designed the diagonal parking is, not that a bike lane would have a negative effect. As Paco already pointed out the bicycle traffic is already there and a bike lane would only create a safe environment for them. The congestion that exists now is artificial, created as an effect of accommodating drivers, not cyclists. Regardless of how a bike lane is installed, Emmons Ave needs an overhaul for the benefit of all drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians.

            The suggestion has been made, in external discussion with people from the area and in the comments, to use a portion of the extra wide sidewalk as dedicated space for cyclists. While this can be a good idea because it would allow a class 1 bike lane it would require the random boxes and the benches on the sidewalk to be moved and would not extend entirely to the plumb beach bike path because of the sidewalk narrowing further east. Thus there would have to be a bike lane of a different class further east.

            Btw, there already is a bike path along the Belt, the Belt Pkwy/Plumb Beach bike path. The reason I made the suggestion is because in order to reach it you have to ride along Emmons ave and there is no safe space for cyclists. This is a bike lane out of necessity, not just convenience. We have this amazing greenspace in our area and no safe way to reach it.

          • http://www.njluxurymotors.com Arthur Borko

            And that Bike traffic could/should be shifted to Shore Parkway, where there is ample space.

            You can write and claim whatever you want, but the fact remains that I don’t agree with your opinion that the bike lanes benefit anyone but the cyclists and the city which will take any opportunity to ticket motorists. There have not been nearly enough studies done on the issue and honestly I wouldn’t trust them either because everyone has an agenda in this city.

            I’m going to trust my personal experience as a motorist and driving professional for over 10 years. 

            Putting Cyclists and Pedestrians side by side is a bad idea in any and all cases. It’s dangerous and inefficient. Legitimizing the cyclists on Emmons Ave with a Lane will do nothing but benefit the 61′st and their quota and you (and the cyclists you represent).

            2 Ton vehicles do NOT belong in the same space as bicycles. In the long run, over many years of accidents and road rage incidents i’m confident i’ll be proven right.

          • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

            RE: http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/12/cycling-advocate-makes-case-for-emmons-ave-bike-lane-community-stands-opposed/#comment-386943819

            You fundamentally disagree with the rights and privileges of cyclists to use roadway? What right do you have to use them? They’re not built for you, or to accommodate you. That’s some flawed logic you have and some odd sense of entitlement. I find it highly offensive that you think that cyclist’s ability to ride on roads is somehow illegitimate because you are incapable of sharing the road and that the responsibility of being aware what your 2 ton machine is doing is so inconvenient that an entire mode of transportation should be tossed like sheet of used toilet paper.

            Oh, and btw, it’s ironic that you mention that cyclists should use shore pkwy when it’s the faster route for cars to reach the Belt because of how poorly Emmons Ave is set up.

          • lou

            Car lanes do not benefit the majority of the people.  Even in this neighborhood where lots of people drive, the majority do not. We walk, take transit, and bike.

          • BrooklynBus

            If there are two lanes of traffic and one is removed to become a bike lane, far fewer bikes will be using the  lane previously used by cars, so the lane benefits more people as a car lane than as a bike lane.

          • Andrew

            You are aware, I hope, that a majority of New York City residents don’t own cars?  Car lanes don’t benefit the majority of people either.  Should all car lanes be removed?  (I don’t think they should, because I don’t have a problem with accommodating multiple modes.  But there are certainly places that we have too many of them, to the exclusion of people getting around by other means.)

            http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/pdf/PSBTApollagendarelease12.13.11.pdf – scroll down to question 24.  Looks like most New York City voters support bike lanes.  And in question 25, we see that only 17% of New York City voters would like to see a decrease in the number of bike lanes.  So it looks like you’re in the distinct minority here.

          • Guest

            You are joking aren’t you? I hope you understand that New York City doesn’t just consist of Park Slope, Williamsburg, East Williamsburg, Bushwick and Manhattan. You realize that there are many people in Staten Island, Queens, The Bronx and the rest of Brooklyn that understand they are part of New York City. You understand of course that anything posted on streetblog.org is highly biased and aimed toward the cycling elite. I hope you realize that for many of these people public transportation doesn’t exist. I hope you realize that if you lived here and stepped outside and stood on the sidewalk anywhere in the city for 5 minutes you would see that your statement can be perceived as incredibly foolish. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but it is far from a fact.

          • Andrew

            Joking about what?  Most New York City households do not own cars.  That’s a fact.  It applies to the city as a whole and it applies to Brooklyn as well.  If that seems surprising, it’s only because cars take up so much space.

            http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/DTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=05000US36005&-geo_id=05000US36047&-geo_id=05000US36061&-geo_id=05000US36081&-geo_id=05000US36085&-gc_url=&-reg=&-ds_name=ACS_C2SS_EST_G00_&-_lang=en&-mt_name=ACS_C2SS_EST_G2000_H041

            The survey I linked to was carried out by Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates, LLC, not by Streetsblog.  Streetsblog only posted it, because they thought that it’s an interesting study (and I agree).

            By the way, I’m not an elite cyclist, or any other type of cyclist.  I haven’t been on a bicycle since I was 6.  But I’m amused that you, an (apparent) driver, considers cycling elitist.  How much does a car cost?  How much does a bicycle cost?

            Frankly, I can’t understand why anybody who wants to get around by car, car, and only car would choose to live in New York City.  Aren’t the suburbs better suited to that lifestyle

          • BrooklynBus

            The survey is misleading.  When someone replies that they are in favor of bike lanes, they are speaking generally.  For example, I would also answer that question yes, that I think more bike lanes are a good idea.  However, you will get a different answer if you ask if someone likes the way DOT is implementing new bike lanes.  Most, especially once you get away from the inner city will say no.  Bike lanes should not take traffic lanes increasing congestion.  They should be off-street or minimally interfere with traffic like on Bedford Avenue.  Traffic should not come to a crawl because of a bike lane used by 25 bikes an hour if even that many.

          • Andrew

            BrooklynBus, which bike lanes have caused traffic to come to a crawl?

            The fact is that DOT only installs bike lanes at the local community’s request.  No, that doesn’t mean that each and every individual in the community wants the bike lane (witness the handful of politically connected PPW residents who unsuccessfully sued the city in an attempt to squash the bike lane that the community had asked for), but it does mean that the community is generally on board.

            The rate of cycling has been growing by leaps and bounds.  In absolute terms, the number of cyclists is still quite low, but the network of bike lanes is still quite skeletal.  Bike lanes aren’t being installed to meet today’s demand – they’re being installed to meet anticipated demand as the bike lane network and the overall NYC population both grow.  (Kind of like the way Moses built his early highways to meet anticipated demand.  Except that highways take up a heck of a lot more space than bike lanes, and that Moses built his highways over the objections of the local communities rather than at their request.)

      • Nycisasewer

        It really would be so sad if a nice Russian in their Bentley opened their car door into you, you fell into oncoming traffic and your skull popped like a pimple. Imagine scratching a $300,000 machine with a dirtbag? The horror.

      • BMB

        Agree or disagree with Lenny/Lostinservice, that’s fine. But to declare he needs a serious beating… over what? Suggesting the community discuss something? Are you kidding me? Last I checked, civic minded private citizens and community discussions were good things. 

        Grow up or post elsewhere. Ned runs a good site, don’t dirty it.

    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

      The imbecile is the person who makes public threats, regardless of whether he can follow through on them.

    • Loki

      “The sense of entitlement these bicyclers have is insatiable.”
      The irony of your post is almost too good to be an accident.  Also, the whining of poor, sad drivers who feel non-deadly vehicles are an imposition is almost insufferable.  The skill required to share the road isn’t as hard as you make it sound.  You poor damn fool.  

    • Andrew
  • Tinman

    Don’t mid the bike lanes, as long cops ticket bicyclists, like they do drivers, when traffic laws are disregarded

    • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

      Exactly. For some reason, the large majority of cyclists think they are King of the Road (sorry Roger Miller). The feel cars have to yield to them, but also pedestrians have to yield to them. Seems to me that logically, however it goes, the bicycle is somewhere in the middle of the car and the pedestrian, and should be yielding to SOMEBODY!

      • Matt

        I don’t think this is limited to bikers. I know of enough drivers that expect bikers and pedestrians to yield to them. There are pedestrians that believe all others should yield to them as well. This type of behavior has nothing to do with mode of transportation they use but general selfishness of human beings. I’ve driven and bikes around the majority of neighborhoods in the NYC and have seen enough actions for me to make blanket statements about all types of people but it is bever the large majority of any of those groups. I can see the frustration of both groups when I choose one mode over the other. I believe the bikers who act the way they do is because of lack of acknowledgement by law enforcement in regards to the rules bikers must follow. I’m an avid biker and I think the only way to raise awareness of biking rules is to ticket those who don’t follow them. Obviously we should not be creating laws all the time to prevent people from acting like idiots but there is no other recourse.

        • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

          I targeted cyclists because I long ago gave up on complaining
          about bad driving, it’s hopeless:)

          • http://www.facebook.com/ianbrettcooper Ian Brett Cooper

            So is complaining about bad cycling. If drivers won’t get better, what makes you think cyclists (who are also drivers) will be any different?

    • Stu

      Check the stats of the precinct: cops aren’t really ticketing drivers for speeding, running lights, etc.  It happens, but barely.

      • Anonymous

        Right, they also don’t ticket jaywalkers very much.  Why?  Perhaps because auto drivers kill around 35,000 people each year in the US.

    • Andrew

      Cops ticket drivers?  News to me.

      If you want to kill someone, the best way to do it is in a car.  Just stick around and say it was an accident, or, better yet, say you didn’t see him.  Doesn’t matter if you were breaking ten traffic laws simultaneously, the papers will all report that “no criminality is suspected” and you’ll be off the hook.

  • Anonymous

    Am more and more convinced that the Community Boards DO NOT speak for the communities. Perhaps there should be someone sitting at a card table down the hall during the next election and take a little local survey. I see plenty of middle aged and senior people running local errands on bicycles. No helmets, no spandex, just bags of groceries and baskets with newspapers and a loaf of bread.

    • Kon

      Community boards are made up of old people who have nothing better to do. 

      • BrooklynBus

        You’ve got something against old people?  Don’t you intend to grow old someday or do you prefer the alternative?  What do you do that is so important?

        • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

          Although his comments have been in poor taste on this article, I think the point he was making was that CB’s were out of touch. I’m just not sure why he decided to target old people.

          • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

            Some of us are older people. We have to maintain our dignity, you know.

          • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

            Of course, and I only have the utmost respect. I disagreed with Kon but was just noting the sentiment of the CB’s being out of touch with the people since it’s something that’s repeated a few times in the comments.

          • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

            That’s all too common a criticism of these groups. Community Boards are chosen by elected officials, and some are long time community activists. Others are chosen because of their success as business people. A few are merely political operatives. A few are probably rather fixed in their views. But on the whole, whether we agree with their actions or not they a relatively well informed group of intelligent people. That they have made some decisions that members of the community would be discomforted with goes with the territory. But they are certainly not out of touch.

            For the record I have no opinion on bike lanes. I see valid arguments for their existence yet I worry about the lack of flexibility it gives bicycles. Especially since I have seen them blocked by double parked cars, and even, on occasion, police and emergency vehicles. In a perfect world they would be totally unnecessary, as motorized vehicles would be sensitive to the fact that have to share the roadways with non-motorized vehicles. And bicycles could freely move into the car lanes when conditions warrant doing so.

          • BrooklynBus

            The CB may not be representative of the community, but that doesn’t mean they are out of touch.  If there is  a large segment of the community that never attends Board meetings or ever contacts the Board, how is the Board supposed to know how to serve them?  It is their fault, not the Board’s.

          • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

            You make an excellent point and you’re absolutely right. I will concede that my criticism might have been a little harsh. I hope my bike lane campaign will get people involved in their local representation.

        • Andrew

          If the community board isn’t representative of the community, then the decisions made by the community board aren’t likely to be the decisions that best serve the community.

          If a community is diverse, the community board should also be diverse.

          • BrooklynBus

            Then you need to contact the BP and city councilmen who make the nominations .

      • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

        Maybe someone should make sure you never join a community board…..

  • http://www.njluxurymotors.com Arthur Borko

    No, No No no no! HELL NO!

    Lenny, OVER MY DEAD BODY!

    FUCK NO!

    • Kon

      What do you have against bicycles? Instead of driving everywhere, why not try walking. Or biking. Lose some of your fat. 

      • http://www.njluxurymotors.com Arthur Borko

        Since you’re resorting to childish name calling I’m not even going to bother with you. 

    • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

      Arthur, instead of holding your breath until you’re blue or shouting “No,” I’d prefer you articulate your problems with bike lanes. In my letter/interview with Ned I said I think bike lanes need to come up organically and with input from the community. if you have issues please let us know what they are.

      • http://www.njluxurymotors.com Arthur Borko

        I do not think that Bike Lanes and Increased Pedestrian Walks are the right direction for this city. The goal should be to make vehicular traffic as efficient as possible, not bottle neck it. In the long run these bike lanes and concrete dividers they are adding all over the city are going to have the opposite affect. They increase congestion and travel time, and increase pollution from idling cars. 

        The majority of drivers are not going to abandon their cars for bikes in this city. Besides, the bike lanes are worthless in winter when vehicular traffic increases and bike traffic decreases due to the temp and inclement weather.

        As for the the whole “Fat people should ride bikes dur hur hur”. Yea that doesn’t work either. It might work for some hefty people but not for obese people. They don’t make bikes with us in mind. Besides, you do NOT want us fat people biking next to you. We’ll take up the entire lane and end up pushing you into traffic.

        I’ll tell you where they can put a Bike Lane on Emmons Ave. The Concrete divider between the parking spots. If they replace that with a Bike Lane so no space is removed from vehicles then that’s fine. Plus the parked cars protect the cyclists.

        One more thing. If you’re going to ask for a change in the community don’t hide your identity behind a label or hide your last name either. You’re asking to change peoples lives and to inconvenience thousands upon thousands of people every day.

        We all use handles online. I chose to use my real name on this site because stand by my opinions. 

        • http://profiles.google.com/subtle116 dave “paco” abraham

          Arthur, I agree the majority will not abandon cars for bikes. Some may, some may not, but I don’t think that ought to be the goal. What I would like to be our common goal is simply a safe space for all road users, whether they’re on 4 wheels, 2 wheels, or even 2 feet. I’m sure you’ve seen the many cyclists already using Emmons to get to the Greenway, as well as the many pedestrians crossing Emmons. Can we agree that some cars are driving too fast and that not stopping cars but simply slowing them a few mph may benefit all of us in the community? I drive on Emmons often whether its to connect to the Belt Parkway or simply grab some Rollin Roaster, but I am not necessarily certain giving just a few feet for bikes would really slow me down to a crawl or increase congestion any more than it currently exists. For me, its usally just the cars getting into/out of angled parking that causes a bit of a backlog. But even that… is just temporary for a few minutes, while the dangerous condition for bikers and pedestrians feels more constant no? 
          I kind of like your idea of putting a bike lane in the center and having the cars protect the path, but realistically its just 3 feet or so wide there and that meant every driver getting out of a car would be injuring a rider with his/her door.

        • Dalfdj

          The majority of New Yorkers don’t have cars to begin with and an even larger majority of New Yorkers don’t use them to get to work every day.

          But I think the suggestion of a protected, separated bike lane on Emmons is a great idea, Arthur.

    • Matt

      YES.

  • Albert

    It would be an excellent idea – and can/should be connected to the Manhattan Beach Bike lane as it flows directly to the bike path along the belt. Can also connect to the Neptune Ave bike lane. The local civics and CB15 should be working for the interests of their communities, and residents as well as visitors of those communities would benefit greatly by a bike lane. 

    • BrooklynBus

      The Oriental Blvd bike lane in Manhattan Beach needs to be removed and relocated to the double sidewalk on Shore Blvd where it would be off-street and safer.

  • http://profiles.google.com/subtle116 dave “paco” abraham

    I wonder if all those who claim there is no room for a bike lane ever take notice of the many cyclists already using Emmons? Clearly, there is enough room. And the striping could help slow down the speeding cars. Right now the only thing ever slowing them down mid block are cars jockeying for parking.

    • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

      It’s my impression that there’s room on the
      Southern side of Emmons, by the bay, but
      Not on the northern side

      • Andrew

        Would it make sense to install a two-way bike lane on the south side of Emmons?  That side is also entirely free of cross traffic (aside from the footbridge), so it seems like an ideal setup.

  • Brooklyn Bike

    I am a Southern Brooklyn lifer.  I am all for the bicycle lanes but at the same time accommodate the vehicles.  I almost got hit by a speeding car and by a parked car (driver doesn’t look at rear-view mirrors, just opens the door) by Emmons Avenue this summer.  By implementing the bicycle lane, it might help create awareness for bicycle riders.

  • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

    I’ll be in favor of bicycle lanes when the cyclists agree to obey the traffic laws and stop yelling at pedestrian me  when I legally cross in front of them.

       Hospital statistics are sharply up for people being hit by cyclists. They’re up more at a greater rate than the increase in bicyclists. I’m afraid that the bike lanes simply embolden cyclists to be even more reckless than they are.

       A bicycle guy said to me, “well, the cars drive like maniacs too”. True, but I  can at least see cars better. The bicycles come from in between the parked cars and the right lane sometimes, and we pedestrians haven’t got a prayer.

       So, if the cyclists stop complaining about being ticketed for illegal driving, I’m okay with the bike lanes appearing everywhere.

    • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

      I’m glad to see your support for bike lanes but I’d like a citation or news article or something backing this up:

      “Hospital statistics are sharply up for people being hit by
      cyclists. They’re up at a greater rate than the increase in bicyclists.
      I’m afraid that at present the bike lanes simply embolden cyclists to be
      even more reckless than they are.”

      I tried googling collision statistics for cyclists and pedestrians and not much comes up, and what does come up does not refer to what you mentioned.

      • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

        I read articles in 2 different newspapers about cyclist induced bhospital visits soaring. These were in print.

        • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

          I found the articles, Op-Ed actually in the post, and the study it cited and I can conclude that the writer did not read anything beyond the summary. The study did not factor fault into it and did not make the conclusion that the cyclists were responsible for increased hospital visits.

          The figures were ~4100 people from 2007-2010, 55% of which were in the city. That’s ~750 people annually in the city. 92% of those injuries were treated and released, so only 60 people per year in all of nyc sustained injuries with cyclists that required being admitted. Considering the number of pedestrians and cyclists on the street, that’ an incredibly low number. It can be lower of course, but it by no means is of epidemic proportions.

        • Anonymous

          You have confused “anecdote” with “data”.  Please see the FARS database for actual data.

      • BrooklynBus

        They didn’t start keeping statistics until this year.

        • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

          Actually the DOT has been keeping records since the early 80s. I tracked down the study the Op-Eds (not articles) Bruce B mentioned (nypost) and it used hospital records of pedestrians in hospitals due to bike collisions. The study concluded that there was an increase state-wide but did not mention whose fault the collision were. Many pedestrians are responsible for the collisions as well since they walk onto bike lanes without regard to bike traffic. There’s already one instance of a cyclist suing a pedestrian who caused the collision with the cyclist in central park. I’m not saying that cyclists aren’t responsible, but I’m saying that fault was not a factor in the study and it’s unethical of the Op-Ed writer to conclude that cyclists are responsible.

          • BrooklynBus

            I read that statistics were not kept until recently.  Can you provide a link to any bike accident statistics?

    • Anonymous

      4,500 pedestrians a year (On average) are killed by autos in this country.  How many are killed by cyclists?

    • Andrew

      I was threatened and honked at by two drivers today – one while crossing the street at a stop sign, the other while crossing the street with the walk signal.  In both cases, the driver was legally obligated to yield to pedestrians.  Yet neither one was ticketed by the police.  In fact, I’ve never seen the NYPD ever ticket a driver for failure to yield to a pedestrian.  Where’s the outrage?

      Yes, errant cars are easier to see than errant bicycles.  But errant cars are also capable of doing a heck of a lot of damage.  Cars kill hundreds of pedestrians each year in New York City, while in most years, bicycles kill no one.  In fact, when a bicycle hits someone, the cyclist himself is often injured, so cyclists have a pretty strong incentive to avoid hitting people.

      • Andrew

        Nearly hit by a car (at full speed) while crossing the street with the walk signal this evening.  I guess the driver didn’t think the red light applied to him.

        • Guest

          I witnessed a cyclist weaving in and out of traffic. Car behind him was honking to inform him of his dangerous cycling. When we got to the red light, the cyclist ran right through it, disregarding pedestrians that were trying to cross. Guess the cyclist didn’t think the red light or the rules of the road applied to him.

          • Andrew

            That’s unfortunate.

            But even if the cyclist had hit a pedestrian, it’s quite unlikely that the pedestrian would have been killed or badly injured.  (The cyclist is probably more likely to have sustained major injuries.)

            Seeing as drivers kill hundreds of pedestrians per year, while bicyclists make it through most years without killing a single pedestrian, I think the police should focus primarily on the drivers.  Reducing the pedestrian fatality rate due to car crashes by 10% would save a lot more lives than eliminating all pedestrian fatalities due to bicycle crashes.

  • Joeychina

    i love biking but think emmons ave is to small for a bike lane. I think they should focus on a bike way straight through long island from manhattan brooklyn and queens.

  • Fran

    A bike lane could be on Shore Parkway adjacent to the highway—the 2 lane road should be scaled back to one lane(  the way it used to be) There are not that many cars using the road for it to be a two lane road–then there would be PLENTY of room for a bike lane.In the hey day of the Sheepshead Bay restaurants–it was ONE lane with parking on both sides!!!

    In fact why is there a sidewalk only on the Shore P’kway section near Cherry Hill?If you do not like the idea of a bike lane,put the sidewalk  all along the road and then it would be safe to use the road for parking!!! 

    • BrooklynBus

      The 2 lane road is needed especially when there are delays on the Belt Parkway which is most every day.  If it were made one lane, the extra traffic would just go up to Voorhies and Avenue Z.  Neither of those streets need more traffic.

  • Guest

    The problem I believe is that cyclist feel they are entitled to the whole road. My issue with cyclist is that in my experience 95% of them DO NOT give a damn about walkers, joggers, pedestrians or motorist. They believe red lights do not apply to them. Way too many times on both bedford avenue and Ocean Parkway I have observed idiot cyclist weave out of the bike lane into the main road and disregard traffic lights. The snobbish entitlement attitude I think is why motorist and pedestrians are against bike lanes. Now I understand that down here in Brooklyn as opposed to transplant world up yonder, people are a little more courteous. However, my concern is that, build a bike lane and not only will Josh be more tempted to come take a look to see where a good place to put a Connecticut muffin is, the DOT will come and destroy more avenues for motorist to benefit bikers only. What I never understood is that for years people have driven and ridden bikes. How is it that only in the past 10 years or so we have decided things weren’t good enough the way they were. A lot more aggressive road rage now is due to the subtraction of turns and lanes, the addition of out of sync traffic lights and stop signs and the snobbish attitude of cyclist. There are always going to be idiot drivers but this assault on the average motorist who would like to have a smooth ride from point a to point b has to stop. Making drivers have to stop on average now every 3 blocks instead of every 10 takes it’s toll too.

    • Local Broker

      +5

    • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

      >My issue with cyclist is that in my experience 95% of them DO NOT give a damn >about walkers, joggers, pedestrians or motorist.
      This is anecdotal confirmation bias. The majority, if not all but a handful, are actually respectful and follow the rules of the road, yield the right of way, and do not break laws. Unfortunately we only take notice of the bad apples because the good ones don’t catch our attention.

      >not only will Josh be more tempted to come take a look to see where a good >place to put a Connecticut muffin is
      I don’t understand what your issue with people named Josh is, or what a CT Muffin is (do I have to check urban dictionary?) but growing local commerce is a good thing. Attracting businesses to open up here is pretty much the goal of any local economy.

      > How is it that only in the past 10 years or so we have decided things weren’t >good enough the way they were
      Cyclists have quadrupled in the last decade and has not shown a trend of leveling off. Whether people like it or not there is a massive boom in cyclists in NYC.

      >A lot more aggressive road rage now is due to the subtraction of turns and lanes
      >the addition of out of sync traffic lights and stop signs
      With the exception of traffic lights, you have to understand that stop signs are built mostly to mitigate speeding, not establish right of way (2 way stop signs are effective in doing that). This speeding and disregard for the well being of other drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians by motorists is a product of feeling entitled to the whole road, which you boldly accuse cyclists of.

      I agree improved road infrastructure, especially in our area, is needed but there is no need to disregard the rights and privileges of cyclists to the road. They’re just as legally entitled to it as drivers and an increase in cycling would decrease car traffic.

      • Local Broker

        Let me ask you this what happens when a biker hits something or someone? There is no way to identify other than color of clothes maybe. You have no insurance to cover the cost of damage you might cause someone. Bike lanes are not necessary in my opinion if it is for recreational use. If you ride a bike as mode of transportation then you should be liable for being on the road. Even if a bike does not hit someone but say swerves to avoid a pot hole and makes a driver avoid him in the process hitting something the biker just rides off like nothing happened a car and driver that would cause an accident like that would be liable. Im not for regulations and fees but if you want to be on the road you need to figure out a way to have some accountability. Im a recreational biker and inline skater and have been for a long time. In my teens i was hit by a car on 2 separate occasions thankfully only minor but both times i will admit it was my fault because i was reckless the way i was skating and riding. So the dings and scratches on the cars well not my problem right and the drivers were lucky i didnt sue their asses.

        • Matt

          Then what happens if someone runner knocks over and elderly person? What about when a pedestrian walks in front of a car and they swerve out of the way causing another accident? Runners/walkers don’t have insurance. People will be inconsiderate no matter the mode of transportation. There is no accountability in these cases as well. Can you offer a solution where those people will be held accountable?
          The reason why bikers need a bike lane is same reason why walkers need a sidewalk. Have a place that is away from danger and also not cause danger to others. There are enough places where I’ve driven and biked that do not have sidewalks. You see folks walking on the road where the cars are going 30 to 45 MPH. Imagine if that was the case in NY.

          • Local Broker

            Runners and walkers are both on their feet not the same as bike and car. A bike lane doesnt create any type of barrier just a line on the road. If a random car wants to drive over it it can. I dont need to come up with a solution im not the one looking for a bike lane. As for people walking in the street with cars you are talking about rural areas with a fraction of the population we have here. All of your arguments are apples and watermelons. Why dont motorcycle riders ask for an imaginary line to keep them safe from cars? We are not talking highway speeds we are talking 30mph street speed and bicycles easily reach those speeds with no liability. Did you feel safe riding in the street with people and cars in these rural areas with no bike lane?

          • Matt

            Actually its not just rural areas. This occurs in places just outside of a major city but they happen to have a population density that is very close due to people moving away from the city. However, the place does not add a sidewalk because that is how it has always been and takes away from the two lanes or large lanes. The issue is the same here. Bike lanes did not make much sense back when three families had three cars and nobody biked. Now that same three family has 9 cars (personal experience) and four members bike. This is the reason to have a bike lane. I much prefer something that is more than a line but that would be even harder with the limited space. Imagine if we said lets stop car traffic 1 out every 15 blocks and limit it to only bikes. The lines may not prevent all drivers but it would help the vast majority of them.

            Sadly I don’t feel too safe in the rural areas with no bike lane. Therefore, I don’t travel there by bike as much as I would like.

            Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate drivers. In fact I drive over 20,000 miles a year. It is actually something I enjoy outside of the city. I just know that when I bike, I would like to have a safe path. There are bike lanes in Brooklyn that go North to South and I use them whenever I bike. However when I need to go East to West, it is not easy since the bike lanes are few and far between or don’t exist at all.

          • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

            comparing a jogger hitting someone with a cyclist hitting someone? Wow, talk about moral equivalence. I guess it’s the same also as a 2 year old tot’s trycycle running into me. Or a mosquito hitting my leg!

          • Matt

            What if they both caused someone to break their leg? Should the biker be held more responsible than the jogger? The issue being raised was that the biker does not have insurance to cover the damage similar to a driver. I was just pointing out that it is not as simple as making bikers get insurance/license plates. I don’t think there is simple solution to the scenario being raised because a pedestrian can cause the same problems outlined above.

          • Local Broker

            Peds can cause an accident but they are not looking to add a lane on the street to share with cars. If a ped crosses the street at the wrong time and gets hit by a car well it happens. If bikes want to share the road with cars they need to be held accountable just like drivers are. Again they are not walking they are driving a bicycle. 

          • Matt

            But peds already have a lane for themselves. It is called the sidewalk. Money is being put into it to keep that up to date. So can we just tell all homeowners that there is no need to upkeep the sidewalk?

            The problem with your statement is that there is already something that caters towards walkers and drivers. Bikers go significantly faster than a pedestrian but significantly slower than a car. There needs to be some kind of accommodation to allow them to do is safer than the current conditions. There are bikers who are more than capable in riding with traffic. However, the lanes are needed for bikers who are not as brave but would also like to get out and bike to see this wonderful city or even for commuting.

          • Local Broker

            I agree when they built all the roads and sidewalks they didnt take into consideration that one day people will want more room for bike lanes. You want a bike lane and i want another lane added to both sides of the Belt.

          • Matt

            I would like to see additional lanes on the Belt as well. I would prefer it if it was the full length of the Belt. The traffic on the Belt has gotten so ridiculous lately. I’m on the Belt way more than I’m ever on a bike but I can see the inequality for bikers when I try to bike around town.

            For now I would prefer the bike lanes, but that has more to do with the small number of them in southern Brooklyn.

          • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

            What hypocrisy! LocalBroker made the comparison of a cyclist to a car which is 2 tons of weight traveling at 30+mph compared to a 240lb object traveling at 12-15mph and that’s somehow valid?

          • Local Broker

            My comparison is not about size but a moving object that the owner needs to hold some type of accountability for it and themselves. So every time a bike squeezes between cars and scratches it with handlebars or kicks of it to keep balance there is a way to identify them and have some responsibility that comes with owning a moving vehicle. I dont believe for a second that you go 12-15mph on a regular basis. Are there any crash tests out there with a bicycle hitting a ped at 20mph or a car at that same speed?   

          • Matt

            Identifying those idiots will not do anything. Its the same as if a car sideswipes a bike and leaves the scene (happened to me). The cops don’t care because there are no witnesses that stayed around since I was not hurt badly (learned to not bike on Knapp st). The only way to prevent what  you are describing is to have more cops stationed in areas that are prone to those problems. I’m actually all for that.

            About my speed on a bike, sadly it is 12-15 about 95% of the time when I’m on the streets. Its hard for me to get up to speed after every red light. The bike path on the other hand is a different story as there are no lights.
            There are no crash tests, but if a biker did that and it was his fault, he should be arrested.

        • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

          Re: http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/12/cycling-advocate-makes-case-for-emmons-ave-bike-lane-community-stands-opposed/#comment-387671325

          First, 12mph is the average cyclist’s speed. In the Netherlands traffic light patterns are set up based on that fact to accommodate riders so they don’t have to stop often and unnecessarily.

          Second, Matt made a valid counterargument about accountability which BruceB felt was invalid and I called out the hypocrisy. Somehow comparing accountability between a 2 ton car and a 240lb rider is fine, but accountability between a 240lb rider and a 180lb runner isn’t.

          I think Matt’s point, as well as my demonstration just now as to why, is valid. There’s no accountability for pedestrians who are involved in accidents (directly or indirectly) and cyclists are closer in size and speed to a runner so it’s a fair to apply your concerns about cyclists to pedestrians but you choose not to.

          • Local Broker

            First its Idaho now its Netherlands im not even going to bother talking about it.
            Good luck to you in your endeavors. 
             

          • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

            You’re right, let’s not look to other parts of the world for potential improvements to our own traffic infrastructure because no city in the world has better traffic situations than NYC. We have it amazingly well. Our buses travel quickly and efficiently and never a wait for them! You never spend more than 10 seconds looking for a parking spot either and the congestion on Emmons Ave is the stuff of tall tales that Ned writes about.

            Not.

          • Local Broker

            You are delusional comparing apples to fucking watermelons. Netherlands density is 1,000/sq.mile Brooklyn is 36,000/sq.mile. and thats without the illegals no one knows about. You want to compare the flow of things with a fraction of the people. In a perfect world we are on the same page in the real world good luck to you. What you dont get this place can only get worse not better i have come to that conclusion not too long ago. Unless you start ripping down houses and buildings like they used to do to build roads its never going to get better.

          • BrooklynBus

            Recreational biking is fine but New York City is not the Netherlands.  Most people will never use bikes as their primary mode of transit even if there is a bike lane on every street and places to park bikes everywhere.  The reason is that the average needed commute is far too great than what would be convenient by bike.  A bike is good for 5 mile commutes, not 25 mile commutes.  Most people do not want to arrive at work tired and sweaty in the summer or freezing and cold in the winter, or wet when it rains.  Not to mention that most people wouldn’t or can’t even ride a bike.

            It makes better sense to fight for better mass transit.  At least most people can use it.

          • Andrew

            BrooklynBus, I don’t ride a bike, but I have coworkers who ride almost every day, over 25 miles each way, and they find it invigorating.  They seem to like to bike in in almost all weather, but if the weather isn’t to their liking, they can always fall back on the subway.
            What’s wrong with that?  Even though I’m never going to ride a bike, it’s good for me when subway riders switch to bikes (more room on the train for me), and it’s good for drivers when other drivers switch to bikes (more room on the road for them).  Diverse transportation systems are good.Have you actually spoken to bike riders about how they use their bikes, or are you just assuming that, because bikes aren’t of any interest or use to you, they can’t possibly be of any interest or use to anybody else?

      • Guest

        >This
        is anecdotal confirmation bias. The majority, if not all but a handful,
        are actually respectful and follow the rules of the road, yield the
        right of way, and do not break laws. Unfortunately we only take notice
        of the bad apples because the good ones don’t catch our attention.

        I’ll say fair to your claim of anecdotal confirmation bias since as I stated it is
        from MY OWN expierence. But I call the same on you because in my
        experiences and everyone else I personally know and have had this conversation with, the handful are the ones which are respectful. I have rarely
        ever see any cyclist stop at the light or yield. When you dare to
        question as to why they are outside their bike lane or running the light
        they basically tell you to go f*** yourself.

        >I don’t understand what your issue with people named Josh is, or what a
        CT Muffin is (do I have to check urban dictionary?) but growing local
        commerce is a good thing. Attracting businesses to open up here is
        pretty much the goal of any local economy.

        Okay. This was my attempt at bringing a little humor to the post. Josh
        and Megan are typical names given to the hipsters that have taken over
        the north. Hipsters, as many others I am sure would tell you, are notorious for coming into a neighborhood and raising rents and overall
        prices on everything so high that the natives can no longer afford to
        live there. Connecticut Muffin is a muffin store that has bland muffins
        at outrageous prices. Maybe you think this is not so bad but these
        locations have a habit of taking over neighborhood staples. Imagine one
        of these where Bagel Boy is as an example.

        The only other thing I will add is that I disagree that more cyclist
        will decrease motorist traffic. People are not going to stop driving to
        take up biking.

        • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

          >When you dare to question as to why they are outside their bike lane
          On this point, cyclists legally have the discretion to either ride in the lane or take the full lane.

          On the subject of stop signs and yielding that’s a matter of convenience due to power requirements. I should say I’m not justifying the actions I’m just explaining why it’s done. To maintain a constant velocity a cyclists has to maintain 100watts of power output, to come to a complete stop and accelerate back to their original speed the requirement increases to 500W. This is well over the capabilities of most cyclists. Idaho has already adopted a law (a few years back) to allow cyclists to treat stop signs (not stop lights) as yield signs. This allows them to slow to a safe speed and pass through the intersection on the condition of having the right of way. Many people think this is also a great idea for cars as well because stop signs waste fuel. I’ve mentioned before that most stop signs are meant to control speed not establish right of way and yield signs would be sufficient at most intersections.

          >This was my attempt at bringing a little humor to the post
          I know, I guess I came off a bit dry because my point was serious but I was hoping to show that I’d noticed the humor by the urbandictionary reference.

          And to your last point, a bike lane might not get a lot of people out of a car and onto a bike, but it would give people the freedom and choice to choose a bicycle as a viable form of transportation so it would increase the number of cyclists. It would then shatter the paradigm that a car is the only way to get around.

          • Local Broker

            Whats up with you guys using all these crazy comparisons trying to make your point. As of 2005, Idaho has an estimated population of 1,429,096. Thats the whole state. You want to take a page out of their book for our city. C’mon 

          • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

            It’s since been considered by quite a few states as well as the city of Toronto. The point is not that it worked in Idaho and it will work here, but rather it’s a good idea that happened to come out of Idaho. It’s merits should not be disregarded because it came from Idaho. It was passed in 1982 and has been working well.

          • Local Broker

            You should run for office you will fit right in as you can spin something you say into something else and go another route if necessary. You say one thing you get a rebuttal and spin it to make sense for yourself. Doesnt make you a bad person but you are so set in your ways theres no way you would consider the other sides argument. You know and cant deny that NYC is a very hectic place with way to many bad drivers, bikers and peds walking in all directions by adding more obstacles for the majority (drivers) isnt going to help the chaos. The couple hundred bikers that would use the lane compared to thousands of cars that use the roads it just doesnt make sense to have bike lanes there. People have been biking for many many years and never had bike lanes and you dont need them now. 

          • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

            Re: http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/12/cycling-advocate-makes-case-for-emmons-ave-bike-lane-community-stands-opposed/#comment-387650566

            My arguments and point of view have been consistent as have been yours. You somehow believe that cyclists are the cause of all accidents, whether it’s with vehicles or pedestrians. You also made some inane argument that pedestrians:

            “Peds can cause an accident but they are not looking to add a lane on the street to share with cars.”

            They have the sidewalks and crosswalks! Bikes do not.

            How set are you in your antiquated (“People have been biking for many many years and never had bike lanes and you dont need them now.”) mind set that you disregard the quadrupled number of cyclists in nyc and the risk the “many bad drivers” pose to cyclists? Your disregard for the safety of others for the accommodation of your own mode of transportation is the common feeling of entitlement that drivers have and that causes unsafe conditions in the first place.

          • Local Broker

            This is my response to matt above.
            I agree when they built all the roads and sidewalks they didnt take into
            consideration that one day people will want more room for bike lanes.
            You want a bike lane and i want another lane added to both sides of the
            Belt.
            I dont think that bikers are the cause of all accidents i never said that anywhere. All i did said was there has to be some type of accountability on your side if something does happen. And dont say that peds can cause an accident and not be held responsible again they are not on or in a moving object. By the way i have been riding a bike and inline skating in these streets since the 80s and in the city since the 90s and never had a problem negotiating my way. If i have time outside of family responsibilities I try to ride my bike every weekend weather permitting. I am not anti bike.

        • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

          Re: http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/12/cycling-advocate-makes-case-for-emmons-ave-bike-lane-community-stands-opposed/#comment-387754516

          RTFA. You do realize that despite where it’s hosted the study is one conducted by transportation alternatives not streetblog.org. Had you checked the link you would have known that.

          • Andrew

            Actually, the study was commissioned by TA but conducted by Penn Schoen Berland.

      • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

        (I’m using YOU as the general you, not speaking to anyone in particular):

        People have to stop the anecdotal confirmation bias criticism nonsense. First off, nothing wrong with someone typing their experiences here. It counts for something. If I see 10 cyclists go through lights in a week, I have the perfect right to form a conclusion. You disagree? Sure.

         Second, people may know something and not  remember where they read it. They don’t have the time to search a link down if one exists, just to satisfy you.

          Third, what they know might have been in print. The internet is not god. I read loads of books, newspapers, magazines per year. I might remember something, and I am certainly not going to waste my time searching for it just to satisfy someone else. You don’t believe me? Hey, your right.

        And lastly, the internet itself can be used for confirmation bias. You have your own set opinion, and you hunt down links that agree with you. Doesn’t make you smart , doesn’t make you right. Heck, I can find 100 links proving there are Martians walking among us (and probably in Sheeplshead Bay).
           This board isn’t a court of law, no need to demand strict laws of evidence.

        • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

          I only asked for a link/post about what you read because I’d like to read it too, that’s all. It wasn’t meant to discredit you, but instead let me read what you read and be on the same page or to allow me to offer criticism.

          The problem with anecdotal evidence is what I pointed out at least 3x.
          >If I see 10 cyclists go through lights in a week, I have the perfect right to form a conclusion.

          You do, but it’s my job to offer a counterpoint, being that you didn’t see or pay attention to the cyclists that didn’t go through lights that week, or to add context you might not have noticed the vehicular moving violations which are so commonplace we don’t bat an eye at them.

          I know you might not have been referring to my posts, but I’m guilty of doing both of these and I’d like you to know why I do them.

          • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

            Sorry guys. I’m gonna ask the doc to check out my recent medication. I’ll have to ask him if taking my 18 medications simulataneously along with shots of Southern Comfort could cause any kind of inbalance, just to make sure.

        • Matt

          But is anyone attacking you for your opinions? The point of this board is to promote discussion and I think it is working. I think it is good to state your experiences and opinions based on your experiences. But it would be just as right for someone to question it or challenge it.

        • http://www.nedberke.com Ned Berke

          “The internet is not god.”

          Huh? It’s like I have no idea what you’re saying right now…

          • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

            God is Dead.* The Internet is now as close to God as we can get.

            *TIME magazine, April 8, 1966.

          • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

             Tell Time Magazine that to me, science seems in the process of proving that there is “intelligent design” (or whatever word you choose) to the universe. And I’m from a totally non-religious upbringing (with some ateism thrown in too!) Uh oh, I can’t wait for THAT discussion to pop up. Ned, post something about the cosmos or something!

          • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

            I know “spitter” is overused, but you just provided one for me!

  • Regina

    I’d welcome a bike lane. Emmons ave is full of bike riders on sidewalks, and it stinks. I am a bike rider and I drive. I have never found bike lanes to be a hindrance to my driving in a car, but the cars that use the bike lane to gain the extra 2 seconds, or take right turns drive me crazy with their unsafe habits. This area is home to some of the most unsafe, obnoxious driving I’ve seen anywhere. I am routinely honked at for obeying the law by idiots who care nothing for anyone but themselves. Too much energy is expended on drivers vs. bicyclists, everyone needs to follow the laws, period. I welcome a ticket blitz on anyone who is speeding or violating traffic laws, no matter the vehicle of their choice.

    • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

      Agreed!  My statements about cyclists does not preclude my utter rage at insane driving tactics these days(autos). As I’ve said many times, stand at the eastbound intersection of Shore Parkway and S. Bay Road (south), as the cars come by off the service road of the Belt. I actually count the time: many cars go flying through the light as late as THREE SECONDS after it has turned red. It’s so dangerous because of the shrubbery (is that a word?) that prevents the pedestrian from seeing these cars come at you. By the way, since cars have to wait the extra time after the light turns green, this is probably creating extra traffic on S. Bay Road. This is something nobody seems to have ever mentioned, or maybe they have but I haven’t read it.

  • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

    Just had a cyclist go thru the light
    And ignore the fact he almost hit me.
    Kings hway and e 18th. When I yelled “why
    Didn’t u stop at the light”, he gave me the finger…. Typical

    • Anonymous

      Just drove down the freeway at 65 MPH for a little over 2 miles.  Every car I counted (around 50) was either passing me or gaining on me, so that means that every driver right now is breaking the law.  Typical.

      • Local Broker

        Moving with the flow of traffic. 

        • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

          Try telling that to a cop when he pulls you over. The law doesn’t change with “the flow of traffic” and if you ask cyclists to respect the law you have to hold the same standard for drivers.

          And the point that goodgulf was making is that anecdotes are like opinions, and you know what they say about opinions.

          • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

            and sifting through a google of links and finding the select few that agree with you, discarding the rest, are like opinions too.

      • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

        Believe me, I don’t dispute the amount of nutty drivers in the Bay. But come now.  The cyclists, as a higher percent, go through the light. In fact, in S. Bay, I’d agree with the guy that wrote that roughly 95% of them won’t stop for a traffic light unless  there’s heavy traffic against them.

          And LostInservice, you can use your pet phrase “confirmation bias”  (has this replaced “no-brainer”, or “no problem”?)  all you want,  but observations do count. I had no opinion one way or the other about cyclists, until one after another started coming close to causing accidents with me. Observation does not equal confirmation bias. However, having a set opinion, and sifting through internet links till you find a couple that agree with you indeed is confirmation bias.

           I’m not against cyclists. I hope they take over completely from cars. Would solve the health crisis and the energy crisis all in one. I might even take it up myself if I thought it was safer.  But they have to observe the rules of the road if they want the road. I think we can all agree on that.

           I saw a couple of articles, cyclists complaining that the cops were unfairly “going after them”. I noticed that the cyclists didn’t even deny they broke the law, just that they were being “targeted”. I think that speaks volumes.

    • annie

      were you texting while you were driving? just wondering…. 

      • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

        That’s an absurd assumption.

        • http://www.brucebrodinsky.com Bruce B

          I don’t drive. I was walking, as usual. As for texting while driving, I think that should be a jailable offense. You’re threatening in the worst way other peoples’ lives by doing something so incredibly dumb and dangerous, you deserve jail time.

  • nolastname

    This has all been said before, I think it was on Gothamist, Lostinservice maybe last year even.
    And the same thing comes up over and over with the same arguments.
    Hands go up with the mention of registration.
    What about tourists? The bike rental places in Manhattan.
    What about people that come from out of state for competitions?
    You want a piece of the street put a tag on your bike. I want to see a number of identification.
    From out of town…..call ahead for a permit like fishers have to do when going on a trip.
    When you register for the marathon a permit should be forthcoming. 
    Want to rent a bike for the day….that rental place should have ID #’s on the bikes already. 
    I am not saying 6 year olds, I am saying 16 year olds.
    I would also like to see messenger services have insurance. OUCH! 
    I do not use nor like bike lanes but if you want a piece of the street and put a plate on your fender go right ahead and have a field day.

    • Andrew

      Why?  What problem would that solve?  And how much would it cost the city to administer?

      • nolastname

        What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
        Who cares what the initial cost may be….it will be pushed off on all taxpayers.
        Then comes the profit and summons that can be served, heck even red light cameras can have a field day if they put a plate on the bike.
        To take part of the roadway and want to have the same rights as motorists then stick it out and pay up like the rest of people using alternate transit.
        Identifying a biker that bumped and ran or did some sort of infraction that cause serious harm would be nice.
        Now I will hear about “what about all the baby buggies-do you want to put a plate on them too?” “skate boards and roller skates”, Please give this one up….it does not float.
        Again this is all redundant. 
        You can’t have a cake frosted the way you like and then eat it too.
        But then again look who our mayor is.

        • Guest

          I’m actually all for what you are saying as well but why don’t we go further and have a national ID with a fingerprint/photo database. Do you know how many issues would be solved if this was done? Sure, you will lose privacy but the amount of fraud that will be removed from this country would be unbelievable. Makes perfect sense logically but for some reason so many people are against it.

          • nolastname

            I in the last 2 months have been a victim of credit card fraud and my AT and T account was hacked. So I am for finger printing before a person is a criminal or in some sort of program. 
            If Apple would have asked for some sort of real traceable ID, this person would not have walked out with a new Ipod.

          • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

            Are you the kind of guy who reads 1984 or Fahrenheit 451 and misses the point?

        • Anonymous

          Roads are paid for largely by general funds.  Everyone pays into that, and most cyclists over the age of 16 that I know also drive cars and pay for tags.  However, what you are missing is that road damage occurs at an exponential rate of vehicle weight (Civil engineering 101) so although car drivers do pay *slightly* more towards infrastructure costs, than dedicated cyclists, cycling does exponentially less damage to the road surfaces.  Point being, cyclists actually subsidize drivers, NOT the other way around.

          • nolastname

            No, I don’t think so. So most cyclists drive cars….good for them paying for the highways and stuff just to have a private Bike lane.  
            A bike can ride in traffic, can a car drive in a bike lane?
            My point….Put an ID plate on it. Register it. 
            Now I can go on to say that most people who drive DO NOT also own a bike.
            There are oodles of people not able to ride (aged-handicapped-lazy) who ONLY drive. See that’s the point. 
            Road damage comes from shoddy NY style street repairs and re-surfacing at the wrong time of year..
            Street are made for traffic. (101-common sense)

          • Anonymous

            Bicycles are traffic.

            Denying basic civil engineering principals does not make them incorrect.

            You completely missed where the majority of highway funding comes from.  You now have an opportunity to avoid saying something equally ignorant about what a highway is.

            No, bike lanes are restricted use lane, just like HOVs, which are also all over the place.

          • nolastname

            WTF. You don’t like what I have to say so it is ignorant. You don’t understand me so “I” am ignorant. YOU DUMB MFR. Kiss my ignorant ass a shove a cycle up yours. How is that for ignorant. 

          • Anonymous

            Wow, that is the most concise, nearly lucid thing you’ve typed yet.  Any day now I am confident that 3rd grade reading comprehension trophy shall be yours!  Congrats!

          • nolastname

            There is no time or space that we would ever be on the same page.
            The proof will be in the results. How many bike lanes are there now? How many will be developed and how many will be removed.
            When I said street were made for traffic I was commenting on your statement that cars wear them down. You just turn it around any way so you can make your pro-bike point. Goodbye and good luck.

          • Anonymous

            …not any time soon though it would appear.

          • nolastname

            Do you even live in Brooklyn? How often do you bike into Manhattan?

        • Andrew
          • Guest

            Cyclist need to yield to pedestrians, stop at red lights and stop signs, stay within their designated bike lanes and follow the rules of the road. Oh and if you want to be a fool and ride on a street that DOES NOT have a bike lane, don’t be a douche and weave directly into traffic. You know damn well the cars behind you are going at a higher speed then you. That dream some cyclist have of getting all cars off the road is never going to occur.

          • Andrew

            Plenty of drivers don’t yield to pedestrians or stop at red lights and stop signs.  I think our priority should be on enforcing the law against those who have the potential to kill others.  Do you disagree?

            Bicyclists have the legal right to leave the bike lane if it is safer to do so or in preparation to make a turn on the opposite side of the street.  Bicyclists also have the legal right to use streets without bike lanes (i.e., over 99% of the streets in the city).  Your legal choices are to pass the bicyclist (if you can do so safely) or to drive behind the bicyclist or to shift to another street.  You also have plenty of illegal choices (which the police are unlikely to care about), like threatening the bicyclist or honking your horn.

            (I really don’t understand this logic.  If everybody in this city drove as much as you appear to, you’d be stuck in a perpetual traffic jam and you’d never be able to find parking.  One would think that you’d be thrilled by people who opt to bike or walk or ride transit instead of driving.)

          • Anonymous

            When I see somebody blow a red light or a stop sign – it’s a rare occasion. Bicyclists, on the other hand, treat lights and signs as suggestions. A bicyclist does have a potential to kill somebody – if he pops right in front of you, because he ran a light – you’ll end up swerving and potentially hitting another car or a pedestrian. You’ll be held liable, while the culprit on the bike will be looong gone.

          • nolastname

            Good for you to be able to paste car accidents,
            My reason is what’s good for one is good for all modes of transportation.
            Sorry some the entitled near 30′s group doesn’t like it. Too bad.
            I answered the reasons before, read back.
            But my ignorance and third grade literacy award allows me to say….
            don’t bother me any more with the same arguments. Don’t resort to calling names like that other piece of shit. His resorting to name calling did not win a difference of opinion.. There is no winning.
            Why care about my single opinion? Must have some people feeling I do not stand alone and it has them a little upset, Oh well…..F’em if they can’t take a joke.
            Ned allows name calling when he feels like it.
            That’s why I can say Goodgulf is apiece of shit.

          • Andrew

            No, nolastname, those are not “car accidents.”  (They appear to be the results of gross negligience, not accidents.)  Those are four car crashes that sent four pedestrians to the hospital (including at least one who died from his injuries) and caused untold amounts of property damage.

            We require drivers to be licensed and insured because they have the potential of causing tremendous damage.  Requiring licensing for bicycling makes as much sense as requiring licensing to walk or to ride the bus.  (By the way, most bicyclists are already licensed drivers.  Is that good enough for you, or do they need a second license?)

            As for entitlement, the word seems to apply quite handily to many drivers, who want traffic laws enforced to the letter on bicyclists but not on them, who demand that the city designate most of its public land to them and throw a hissy fit if a fraction of 1% of that land is redesignated for the safety of bicyclists and pedestrians (at the local community’s request).Name calling?  Where did I call you names?

          • nolastname

            I said don’t resort to name calling like……
            Yes, negligence. Accidental as opposed to homicidal. Were these people charged with vehicular homicide? Did they plan on going out and causing someone harm? I think not. Let’s call it shit. Shit happens OK.
            Now how about this for an arrogant 3rd grade reason.
            When I ride over someone on my trike I want to be able to identify who I just mangled. The heck with my right to be able to identify a negligent cyclist. Yeah, OK.

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  • Biker

    I see too many people speeding on eastbound Emmons Ave, trying to pass on the right side of the street. They think it’s two lanes when it is not. The police does not do anything even though they have statistic of car accidents. Lets put a bike lane and hundreds of bikers would feel much safer.

    • Anonymous

      The problem is that the drives who are looking for parking are going extra slow, so they get passed on the right…

      • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

        An inefficient parking set up is no excuse for dangerous driving.

        • Allan Rosen

          Passing on the right on Emmons Avenue is not “dangerous driving” because although not striped, it is commonly used as two lanes if no one is illegally parked by the curb. The only reason it is not striped is because ridiculous angle parking.  If you want to talk about “dangerous” that is what is dangerous considering the traffic volumes.  It was designed in the 1920s when traffic was exceedingly light, not for current use. One day I’ll actually figure out how many extra parking spaces are supposedly created as opposed to two lanes of parallel parking which would allow you to stripe it as two lanes.

          • http://twitter.com/Lostinservice Lostinservice

            It’s impossible to gauge how many extra spaces are added. Scavo said 3-4 but that assumes that the cars are parked at identical angles and have sufficient distances between them but that’s not the case because the parking spot markings/guides have long been worn out.

            I’m of the opinion that removing an entire row of traffic for an extra 3-4 spots is not worth it and restructuring traffic/parking on Emmons ave could increase number of parking spots, increase traffic flow, and allow for a class 1 bike lane. If you’d like we can sit down and work out a plan to present to the CB/DOT because although we might not agree on some issues your input would be valuable. If you’re interested, you can get my contact info from Ned.

          • Allan Rosen

            While the parking lines are worn out and need repainting, they still are readable and cars do abide by them, but I still question that 3 or 4  per block because I don’t know if that assumes parking on one side of the street or both sides.  I have no objections to an eastbound bike lane if it could be done while maintaining two lanes of traffic eastbound which are necessary especially in the summer, when even two lanes are congested.

            If you remember, the B4 used to use Emmons both ways but was rerouted to the Shore Parkway south service road because Emmons traffic in the summer moved at about 2-5 mph with 2 lanes and the buses would lose 15 minutes in traffic between Emmons and Nostrand screwing up the entire line. Perhaps the sidewalk could be narrowed or the traffic lanes narrowed.  I think the community would scream if adding a bike lane required removal of 30 parking spaces or so.  The first thing to do is figure out the number of resulting parking spots to see if it would be feasible to eliminate the angle parking.   That shouldn’t be that hard to do.

          • Allan Rosen

            If two traffic  lanes could not be maintained, the right lane could still be identified as a bike share lane with appropriate lane markings and signage.  That still would be better than nothing, and with traffic moving so slow on Emmons, there shouldn’t be a problem with impatient drivers stuck behind slow moving bikes becaue they wouldn’t be able to move faster anyway much of the time.  When traffic moves faster, cars could always pass the bikes.

            The problem I see is that bike advocates would not be happy with a one-way lane and immediately would start lobbying for a bike lane in each direction and demand the removal of a lane of traffic in each direction which the Community Board would oppose.