Readers say portions of the flier prove that it's fake

If you haven’t been paying attention to the debate raging on Thursday’s post, “In Sheepshead Bay Mosque Debate, Fliers Go ‘Round,” many readers raised questions about the flier’s authenticity. They said the poor wording is something a mosque supporter would never let get around the neighborhood, and that many of the “mistakes” are made to scare community members into opposing its construction.

Well, we heard from Ibrahim Anse, a board member and assistant project manager behind the mosque. He wrote:

We, as sheepshead bay community center and mosque board, did not issue, write, circulate, niether think of making a flier and disterbute it in the area at all. And as, one of the board memebers, I deannaounce it as a whole. We have a cause, and we believe in it, serving the community not raising issues or making problems.

Similarly, a member of the mosque’s opposition has also contacted me expressing doubt that it was real. He suggested a misguided person on their side might have thought it would help, and he has asked BayPeople.org to consider removing it from their website.

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  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

    The flier did its intended task, it inflamed people. And since it came from a possibly unknown source its exposure does little to diminish its effect on the fundraising activities of baypeople(dot)org.

  • Abu Aymen

    Yes I do Agree with Lisanne, Thanks for Ch. 11… and Thanks a lot for Sheepsheadbaybites. as well.

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

    FWIW, it has been removed from the site. But much damage has been done already.

  • Guest

    Here's a devil's advocate thought. What if it WAS sanctioned by the MAS? Then, after seeing some of the outrage about the verbage, which may or may not have been an honest “lost in translation” mistake, they struggled with a way to respond. After all, it wasn't until late in the dialogue here that we saw any denial of authenticity fromn the MAS or “board members” of the mosque. In fact, the questions about authenticity were championed by people in this thread with no affiliation to the mosque at length before we saw any “board members” hopping on the band wagon.

    Wouldn't it be much easier for them to deny responsibility to an audience that is already making their case? It's almost as if a perfect alibi was handed to them on a silver platter for their rubber stamp. It may really have been a misguided and poorly worded appeal for support.

    Or, it may be a fraud.

    Either way, I think the board has a lot to learn about public relations. If this episode is any indication of how they intend to approach conflict resolution in the future it is destined to be a miserable failure. They may want to consider reprimanding those who are representing themselves as “board members” here that freely fire off insults of “racism” against citizens who have legitimate questions and concerns. They may want to consider answering those questions and concerns honestly and directly, without tap dancing around them. They may want to revisit the definition of “racism” and explain to their supporters that racism is not applicable to religion. They may also want to tone down their supporters chants of “it is your rights muslims”. Incindiary language is just throwing hi test gasoline on an already raging fire and does nothing to reassure an already suspect community.

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

    You're not it's not racism, its bigotry. Same effect, same socially unacceptable expression.

    And of course in your mind Muslims have no rights here, and any statements that they make to that effect is incendiary (Its not spelled incindiary)

    Seems to me you're the one trying to revive a dying fire.

  • PayPaul

    I'm certain nothing would be said if certain other groups were protesting for their rights. But Muslims have no rights in this land of the free and home of the brave. The fear-mongers continue their endless pursuit of power over our minds and bodies.

  • abu aymen

    Thanks.. you get it.
    regards.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/WES73ODOGRE5FCC5CBDGGNXZME Rufina Y

    Why would they need to curb their fund raising activities?
    They have a right to oppose this project and challenge its validity in court, why not?
    They have the same right to oppose it as the other side has the right to propose and build it.

  • Abu Aymen

    Thanks for the advise, No need to hire any one!!! or make the case bigger than it deserve. Concerns residents are raising, which are part our concerns as well, and will be solved no mater what. In fact, everyone is trying his/her/their best to help , and both sides are in a state of understanding ( READ ABOVE)each other, regardless any (Racism). Again concerns matters everyone, needs to be solved together… I can read between the lines of your comments, thanks anyway.

  • Guest

    I said muslims have no rights ….where?

    Don't put words in my mouth. It destroys your credibility.

    As for the distinction between racism and bigotry…..I have already tried to suggest that, several times, in the first thread. It doesn't seem to have sunk in.

    I don't know what your agenda is. Frankly, I really don't care. However it appears that you'd rather have free thought and speech be the victim of political correctness. If you think I'm racist or bigoted then you clearly have misinterpreted my posts here. I'm a student of history and to quote a cliche', those that don't remember it are doomed to repeat it. It is through that lens that I scrutinize everything in life, from being wary of auto mechanics to religious zealots of any denomination, whether they be 'hands in the air speaking in tongues born again christians' or zombies trying to hitch a suicide ride on the next comet.

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

    Your pretense of education doesn't particularly impress me.

    My agenda is that of ensuring that the rule of law is understood and respected. Nothing else matters here, not attempts at scaring people, or intimidating those whose rights are being challenged. I will be not silent when the principles this country was founded on are trampled on by those who get the benefit of them, but do not wish to extend those basic rights to others.

    I'll quote Jefferson. “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance”. Jefferson is a collateral ancestor of mine.

  • Guest

    You may want to consider applying your Jefferson quote to the scrutiny of a religion that limits the freedom of women. We shouldn't compromise freedom of religion as long as religion doesn't compromise our freedom. As an advocate of “the law”, I'm surprised you aren't concerned with a religion that throughout the world is intent on superseding the laws of their host countries in favor of their own.

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

    Sorry, my opinion of their religious practices and their theology remains separate from my recognition that they have the right in this society to practice their religion as long as it does not violate our law. Their right to worship is not prohibited here. That is the issue which we are concerned with in this matter. Nothing else.

  • Guest

    And it is in that vein that the arguement is being waged, isn't it? We want to be sure that this project is proceeding within the law, whether that be with the financing of the project or working within the parameters of building codes and ordinances. You also have to consider the community impact, which, as has been articulated, is a major issue here. Community impact studies are necessary lest you are proposing an anarchist approach to city planning. Sadly, those concerns are being attacked and diminished with charges of “racism”. Play the “race card” even when it doesn't apply.

  • Say so

    I would like to tell you something, from day one, no one approach the mosque with community concerns, (where Muslims explained its their concerns in the first place) they start the racial approach, not Daily News, Neither NY Post. Their comments and talks in the media did, which is not acceptable anyhow, and we stand with Muslims to get their rights.

  • Guest

    I would like to tell you something Say so. Saying “they started it” doesn't absolve anyone who continues with that strategy especially when the mosque is now using charges of racism as the centerpiece of their defense.

  • Say So

    With all respect it does. Mosque people seemed to use, that, racial issue, law, zoning, code, regulations, and annoying the flier that was posted, they are using it too, I heard and read. So it looks like the scale is weighting them more, logically. on the other hand , opponents are, mad, have no patient, parking, traffic issues is not legitimate, while it is a concern but cannot do anything, and besides. MAS issue is not going to win, you are talking Federal, Nationwide not local thing. And these people ( Muslims) may say, well we were thinking ( as their Head mentioned on time that they are thinking to affiliated with MAS) and now we are our own community center and let MAS look for something else, who knows,,

    So it looks like the ,, $7000 is a waste,, and the time is also a waste to change City planning , City Code, Federal sues, and more.. Come on think about it guys and be more realistic. !!!

  • Vigilant

    Great quote Lisanne! ! (“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.”) Let's be vigilant.
    MAS was selling books and CDs by Anwar al-Awlaki at the December convention: http://www.adl.org/PresRele/IslEx_61/5687_61.htm
    And this is the same Anwar al-Awlaki US government wants to kill (Google or read the following NY Times article) http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middlee
    al-Awlaki was linked to Fort Hood massacre, to the “crotch bomber” and 9/11!
    Am I free to say that I don't want any organization supporting Anwar al-Awlaki as my neighbor? Where does political correctness stop and vigilance begins?

  • Witness to 9/11

    If nothing else works with halting this project from being built, I say vandalize the damn place every week. Set fire, cause leaks, spill pigs blood.
    Obviously Lisannes and PayPauls of this world would rather see democracy and law prevail here, even supporting Islam which ironically does not accept democracy and law as fundamentals.
    Poor Muslims have no rights? You damn right they do not have rights to come to this country and pretend being good neighbors while preparing plots to bomb and destroy. Damn right, they have no rights controlling all the gas stations in the country and ripping off people, while sending money back home and directly or indirectly supporting terrorist and radicals. No rights, coming here and breeding children like there is no tomorrow, then sitting back and waiting for a government handouts because they can not support them all and give them medical insurance.
    Enough here? No they have no rights at all.
    They have just as many rights here, but where are the responsibilities that come with rights?

  • Witness to 9/11

    Before defending Islam and its followers, how about reading this little piece of information?
    This is what liberals turn this country into.
    Islam was not what founding fathers had in mind when they wrote Declaration of Independence.

    http://sheikyermami.com/2010/04/06/fethullah-gu

  • Witness to 9/11

    Bigotry is socially unacceptable? Not in this case. Watch the video on “community” Islamic group in PA. Source-MSNBC.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpiSEh4QKIQ&feat

  • Guest

    Excellent point Vigilant. Your post should be front page of the New York Times documenting al-Alwaki supporters right here in Sheepshead Bay. However, it's clearly apparent there are supporters (enablers) here that are intent on turning a blind eye toward serious concerns. This issue is not as one dimensional as they would have you believe. They are determined to be the merchants of the rope that will eventually hang themselves.

  • Guest

    Im sorry but illegal activity is not the solution. There are plenty of legitimate avenues to pursue to oppse this project. The behavior your are suggesting, besides being illegal, only strenghthens their hand by distracting everyone from the rational points of the arguement.

  • Witness to 9/11

    Well, you do what you feel is right, and I will do what I feel is justified.
    Ends justify the means in this case.
    They need to be fought the way they would understand, and the only way they understand is through illegal activity.

  • Witness to 9/11

    The funny thing is that all those enablers are probably no where even close to the proposed location. it is so easy for them to defend this issue sitting behind computer monitor all day long. they are so brave and fighters for democracy as long as it is not in their back yard

    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

      Wrong, Muslims have lived on my blocks for years, and they are good neighbors. They are quiet people that do not intrude on the lives of others.

      if they wished to build a mosque–why should that be different from a temple or church? They are a lot of both near where I live. Many are in converted houses.

      You shouldn’t assume things.

      • levp

        To make the long story short, I stand with Lisanne here.

        For the record, I’m an Atheist (so I reject any religion, not just Islam), I live like 100 yards from the proposed site, and I too saw the towers burn…
        But I put my striking hand on hold in this case for the same reason I don’t attack random Germans for killing my Grandfather in 1941.

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

    I suggest you read the Jeffereson quout in its original context.

    • Vigilant

      This is very simple… Picture this: Muslim American Society SELLS books and CDs by Anwar al-Awlaki in December, some of the money paid by MAS members and collected by MAS goes back to Yemen, Anwar al-Awlaki sends Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab to explode on the plane. Who’s money paid for the ticket?

  • BakiShamil

    You just are naive fool or whatever you want to call yourself…There are a lot more hatred against jews in this world http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/qae…. Its ok when other scrutinize Jews…..

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

    1st amendment.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

  • Bgizzle

    “We, as sheepshead bay community center and mosque board, did not issue, write, circulate, niether think of making a flier and disterbute it in the area at all. And as, one of the board memebers, I deannaounce it as a whole. We have a cause, and we believe in it, serving the community not raising issues or making problems.”

    The grammar used in this letter is similar to the grammar used in the flier.

    “niether think”, “disterbute”, “memebers”, “deannaounce”

  • Local Broker

    Every one needs to watch this documentary “Protocols of Zion” if you have netflix you can stream it to your computer or tv.

  • Guest

    Would you like to finish the rest of the amendment, or should I?

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    In other words, the same amendment you cite as protection for the advocates of the mosque also protect the opponent's right to free speech.

    But there's more. Nobody is asking Congress to make any law. What the opponents are asking is to consider the logistical impact on the neighborhood, infrastructural and otherwise. In addition what the opponents are asking is to investigate the backgrounds of the parties involved and their motivation for pursuing this project within the questionable framework that has been schemed.

    But there's still more. Since the mosque's activists have promoted and sold material from Anwar al-Awlaki , the radical Imam behind the Fort Hood Massacre and attempted Christmas bombing, can an ideological connection be drawn that would represent a clear and present danger? Remember that who we are talking about is a US citizen who the US government feels is so dangerous that they have sanctioned his assassination. Can the support of such an anti-US figure be considered seditious?

  • lol

    hahahaahhahahahahahahahahah,, looooooool , looool

    nice job … loooool

    loughing too hard….
    loooool

    this is the mind needed. ……

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001 Lisanne!

    This amendment gives them the right to worship, and erect institutions for that practice. In other words, that which is not specifically prohibited is allowed.

    The right to petition the government does not mean that government has the obligation of acting upon that grievance. Especially so when the nature of the remedy sought violates other constitution construction.

    if this was just a logistical problem you would not be mentioning the radical elements that have manipulated Islam scripture to justify actions which are against the basic tenets of Islamic belief. The members of this local group have no known history of involvement with such radicals, and, in this country, innocence is assumed until proven otherwise.

    So unless you have something that is provable about members of this local group you cannot argue by making a connection between these people and others

    • Guest

      The first Amendment doesn’t allow anyone to “erect” anything. Unlike third world countries, buildings in the US have to meet local, state, and federal guidelines, whether that be of a building code variety, land use, or zoniing ordinance. Trying to infer that the amendment gives anyone a license to skirt those issues is folly. If that were the case, anyone who faced opposition or legal challenges would simply declare their project to be of a religious nature. You may be treating the word “establishment” as if it has some type of brick and mortar connotation. It does not.You are right though in that if this just were a logistical problem I wouldn’t be bringing up the radical element of the equation. That’s because, as I stated before, this is not a one dimensional issue. Radicalism has been linked to the MAS, ergo, the local group. They are, after all, affiliated with the project. Promoting the teachings of Anwar al-Awlaki should not be taken lightly. The Federal government doesn’t think so, why should you?Despite what you may think, there is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees anyone the right not to be insulted and although it may be construed as an insult or distasteful to be critical of a particular group, in many cases, such as this one, that application of prudence may be necessary to protect and ensure the general welfare of the public, a Constitutional interpretation of “welfare”, as opposed to what we in the 21st Century have come to equate it to mean, (medicaid, food stamps, etc)It would be great if we lived in a world where suspicion of one’s neighbors were absent and trust and harmony prevailed over the land. We don’t, and it does not. Entire countries and faiths distrust one another. That behavior is not lost on local neighbors. It’s a sad fact of life, an unfortunate product of history and past events. Mohammed Atta was a nice quiet neighbor until he flew a 767 into a building. That’s reality. While the Constitution affords us certain rights to live our lives with ‘minimal’ government interference, it is not over-reaching for the government to be the vehicle that protects the citizenry from all threats foriegn and domestic. To deny that radicalism in any religion is a threat, or to ignore the possibilty of it’s existence in venues that it has proven itself over and over to thrive is not a model of vigilence but rather apathetic malpractice. Every religion has radical offshoots and perverse interpretations that represent a ‘clear and present danger’ to the community. Look at the Christian militias for example. Recent arrests in Ohio, Michigan, and Indiana are proof that Islam is not the ony pursuit of religion that suffers increased scrutiny because radical elements hijack the faith for nefarious reasons.I am just as sick about the bigotry brought on by misunderstanding as you or anyone else is. However, I’ll take accusations of bigotry over blame for not doing enough to be sure that people are who they say they are and are embarked on a noble mission rather than one that threatens to attack the very freedoms we hold dear. If three thousand dead on the streets of Manhattan isn’t enough motivation for you to question or be suspect, what is? How many more innocent dead will it take before you decide to modify your trust in mankind enough to take a second and third look at your surroundings and you neighbors to be certain that doesn’t happen again?Beyond the noise, beyond the parking, beyond the building codes, beyond the questionable financing issues, there remains the proverbial eight hundred pound gorilla in the room that everyone is being forced to ignore out of political correctness. Radical Islam. It’s real and it’s here. It may be a sad state of affairs but welcome to life in the US in the 21st century. Ignore it at your own peril, not mine.

      • be Honest

        That is nice to show all of that, however, I think , respectfully, you should correct some of the information these people(Muslims) We are in their countries, all over the Islamic world, Not planting flowers , nor building institutions, neither paying their taxes, nor, being their for living, but killing, attacking, torture scandals all over. Well that might be a way of liberating them, and making them free of some of their dictators. but still not the way they are looking to live here and be part of the society.
        Yes 9/11 happened, we all mad, against it, and Muslims themselves are against it, including MAS(as Bray said at You Tube in one event which I get it from baypeople.org it is on the link they put to view). Therefore, all Muslims are not radical, and relatively, MAS is not otherwise what makes it alive pro-9/11. just simply think about it.
        Look, each house has a bathroom, your fingers are not equal, and good and evil exist, so, do not generalize them as radical, do not expect the worse and treat everyone as a human, as American, as a neighbor.

        at the end you mentioned, you shoud comply with, city, state and federal codes. I think they are claiming to comply, so what can we do????

        Just leave them alone, and stop fighting the law of this great nation…

  • Ray Johnson

    The flyer now begs the questions: Are the authors now admitting to being racists? If so, to which race?

  • randy

    Ha,ha,ha…''mostly do not support terrorism''.That's ridiculous!
    Or ''..you all will love serene calls to prayers'' Cool.ha?
    Guys, stop cheat us! US-means United States!
    Support our troops!

  • randy

    Awake,people! It's just another step to islamization of our country. Look around!
    Mosque at Ground Zero-is part of their plan of spreading islam! West Europe-is perfect example. Don't believe them. There are not friends.Islam-is anti world, anti culture, that dreams to dominate.They all, I repeat,ALL- support HAMAS and Islamic Jihad. Every new mosque, every hidjab on their heads,every serene calls to prayers in Catholic or Jewish neighborhood or around,any new grossery on the corner-is a small, but new victory of islam on our civilization. Awake, America! No more political correctness!Other wise-we gonna die.
    Say NO! No mosgue on Ground Zero – symbol of their victory on ''stupid and liberal'' Americans.

  • randy

    Ha,ha,ha…''mostly do not support terrorism''.That's ridiculous!
    Or ''..you all will love serene calls to prayers'' Cool.ha?
    Guys, stop cheat us! US-means United States!
    Support our troops!

  • randy

    Awake,people! It's just another step to islamization of our country. Look around!
    Mosque at Ground Zero-is part of their plan of spreading islam! West Europe-is perfect example. Don't believe them. There are not friends.Islam-is anti world, anti culture, that dreams to dominate.They all, I repeat,ALL- support HAMAS and Islamic Jihad. Every new mosque, every hidjab on their heads,every serene calls to prayers in Catholic or Jewish neighborhood or around,any new grossery on the corner-is a small, but new victory of islam on our civilization. Awake, America! No more political correctness!Other wise-we gonna die.
    Say NO! No mosgue on Ground Zero – symbol of their victory on ''stupid and liberal'' Americans.

  • Irinaelkina

    Dan: What I think all of you are missing is the fact that there is a public school across the street from the mosque. Now I sure know the traffic nightmares associated with schools and stopped yellow school buses. The noise pollution that is created between 8 and 3 pm does not seem to affect our white hooded wannabees in sheepshead bay. I am offended by your cowardly use of the tragedy that happened on 9/11, to further your racist ignorant, the most uneducated neighborhood agenda. However, you cower to russian mobsters who pimp hookers and prostitutes in the neiborhood. The park concerts, the mosque, the new sex shop, what will these fascists wannabees hate on next week.