The site of the proposed mosque at 2812/2814 Voorhies Avenue
Opponents of a proposed mosque in Sheepshead Bay came before the Sheepshead Bay/Plumb Beach Civic Association last week to rally support for their fight, but instead found little sympathy for their struggle.
A handful of neighbors came to the Tuesday night meeting to present their case against the mosque, which may soon be built at 2812 Voorhies Avenue and will also include a school and community center. But board members of the civic association and Community Board 15 chairperson Theresa Scavo bristled as the opposition turned towards race-baiting and ethnic fears.
“On what grounds are you opposing them?” said Scavo. “You can’t turn around and say ‘Oh they’re Muslim.’ Who’s going to look like the bad guy?”
Though initial statements from the mosque’s opponents emphasized potential traffic, parking, and noise problems as the cause for their concern, racist undertones began to bubble to the surface of the debate.
Opponents have taped anti-mosque signs to the construction fencing
“The various people that will be drawn to this location will not be acceptable,” said Joan Bonfonte, a real estate agent who lives nearby. “When you’re going against people who are looking to blow us apart, I don’t like it.”
Victor Benari, another neighbor, said he’s afraid for his children, and doesn’t want them walking past the mosque to go to P.S. 52 less than a block away.
“My son comes to me and says he is afraid of them,” Benari said. “I’m afraid of them too, because they look like this,” he said while pantomiming a burka’s veil.
City planners rejected an August proposal from the mosque’s organizers that asked for a zoning variance. The proposal included a four-story center with a roof extension for a minaret, a tall spire used for calls to prayer.
Their proposal was rejected by the Department of Buildings.
Still, the mosque is expected to go forward with construction within the existing zoning regulations. According to DOB’s community affairs liaison Ken Lazar, who attended Tuesday’s meeting, community facilities like religious institutions may build “as of right” in residential neighborhoods so long as they fit in with zoning.
Benari and other opponents said more locals should be concerned, as the mosque presents a challenge to real estate prices and the character of the community.
“Your real estate will go down. You won’t be able to sell your houses. They will go for peanuts,” said Benari.
He also said that it would draw larger numbers of Muslims to settle in Sheepshead Bay, changing its demographics.
Members of the civic association – almost all of which have family spanning generations in Sheepshead Bay – balked at the notion of an Eastern European immigrant appealing to them on the changing character of Sheepshead Bay.
“I liked this neighborhood when I could leave my house barefoot and walk on the beach,” said SB/PB Secretary Barbara Berardelli. “When [Eastern Europeans] moved here, I couldn’t do that. I didn’t like you. But ultimately it’s not about your preference, it’s about being a good neighbor and realizing they have rights too.”
Scavo added that the group might have a chance if they fought their battle on the concrete issues of parking and traffic. She pointed out that Voorhies Avenue is a congested street with one lane in each direction.
“If you want to succeed, do not use the word mosque. Do not use the word Muslim,” said Scavo. “Request the traffic reports. Go take photos of the double parking at the other mosques during calls to prayer. Have they done that? No. Because they’re lazy. You can’t just go with your mouth. You need paper.”
Ultimately, neither Scavo nor the civic association were convinced the group had a leg to stand on.
Berardelli suggested they sit down with the mosque’s officials to settle issues “because you have to live together.”
She was interrupted by a dissenter, who shouted, “But can they live with us?”
A visibly flustered Berardelli shook her head and responded, “You’re not going to stop this.”
Gene Berardelli, SBPB’s council, advised the group to consider a stern, but compromising approach.
“It’s about how you engage them,” he said. Opponents should stay vigilant for DOB violations and quality of life issues to make sure the mosque doesn’t disturb the existing atmosphere. “You have to hold their feet to the fire. But ultimately you need to be a neighbor, because they’re coming to the neighborhood,” he said.
After the meeting, the group against the mosque was not optimistic about receiving more support than the nearly 300 signatures they collected from residents during a petition drive. Local politicians have made clear that the facility has a right to build, and the civics and community boards are reluctant to be pulled into a racially-heated debate.
Benari, though, said he’s considering legal challenges to bar construction. But he adds that though they have two lawyers working on it, they have yet to find the grounds for a suit.
One thing is for sure, though. Benari has no plans to take the civic’s advice to compromise with mosque officials if the facility is built.
“Will we engage them? No. I don’t think so,” he said. “I’ll tell you what I will do. I will move from this neighborhood.”
View documents from the opponents, including letters to and from local politicians, by clicking here [.pdf]
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mosque or not, pedestrian traffic will be a hazard and chaotic! especialy for children!!! go to any house of prayer of that size, they all have/cause an insane amount of issues for the local community. Example – Borough Park Synagogue/School, neighbors are up in arms about the institutions noise, parking issues, traffic, children hazards etc.
Not to seem paranoid, but considering the nature of this article and the accompanying documents, you guys might want to redact some of the information in those documents….
Valid point. The petition section has been removed. Thanks.
Those documents make for interesting reading, on a number of levels. I wonder how other houses of worship, churches and synagogues that are already operating in Sheepshead Bay dealt with opposition, or was there never any?
Is there a community mediation service we can call on to help open the discussion? Maybe, there are even appropriate alternate spots for a mosque. How about considering the now-empty Jewish Community Senior Center building on Avenue X, between E. 22 St & E. 23 St?
The more diversity here the better this neighborhood becomes. No one group can claim primacy or change it totally to their liking.
The side streets of Sheepshead Bay are filled with religious structures representing numerous Christian and Jewish groups. To the best of my knowledge there was little objection to these placements. In a inclusionist society such as ours we normally welcome diverse religious practice. The mere fact that this is a mosque, rather than a church or Jewish temple should not make it an exception. Our country prides itself on religious tolerance, it is part of the very reason we came into being. Let's not be narrow minded now, we (or our ancestors) have benefited from that principle for the past 400 years.
The neighborhood should do all it can so that the roots of this cancer aka “religion of peace” do not plant themselves in this neighborhood.
Not to sidetrack, but I love your Google Adwords link… seeing this link with side-ads for “the International Muslim Matrimonial Site” has no laughing to no end.
To me, the issue never should be about the practice of religion – our country's formation is in large part based on the pursuit to worship freely and without interference from government. Hence, the laws are extremely permissive towards the development and placement of new houses of worship – and they are pretty much cut and dry.
As Lisanne said, diversity benefits a community. That should never be an issue. Some of the contentions I heard at the meeting were unfortunately in their ignorance. As a community, we should never go down such a hateful road.
IMO, the focus should be on (1) engaging the developer to ensure that they build correctly and that the process of construction their desired building have minimal intrusion on their lives, and (2) after its construction, immediate neighbors should meet with the head of the congregation to address community concerns like parking and noise. If deemed necessary by either side, the precinct should be made aware when services are initially held to ensure that no disturbances occur.
It's time to build a dialogue and act reasonably, not to act reactionary based on half-truths and rumors.
All religions have perpetrated crimes against humanity throughout history, but it was (mostly) not the religion's fault so much as those who misinterpretted it for their own agendas.
Gene/Phil,
It's ok to open your eyes and admit that not all religions are equal. Furthermore some religions just tend to be “a little” more violent than the others in their preachings or practice. As far as I recall these days Judaims/Christianity does not preach Jihad, encourage it's believers to attack infidels or promise you 72 whores if you kill yourself and take a few infidels with you. I am not the one saying these things. I am merely repeating what the members of the religion of peace preach.
I suggest you attend some services of some fundamentalist Christian churches in the so-called “heartland” of America. You might hear some “clergyman” claim that God spoke to him and said our President must die. We call that treason usually. Then, extend that to a decision that all Christians are of a murderous nature. Sounds illogical? It's no more so then basing one's perception of Islam on the extremist remarks made by sick people who manipulate the tenets of that religion towards their own political ends.
Lisanne,
You are kidding me. Right? Go through all the current global conflicts and tell me what percentage of them is triggered by Islam. The percentage of clergyman who advocate that president must die is a little smaller (tiny bit smaller) than percentage of infidels in Muslim world who claim that infidels must die. To further my argument why do not you visit London and hear some “mainstream” rhetoric there – they are pretty vocal about Sharia law during their demonstrations and the means by which they plan to attain me. Let me remind you that it is not one or two “extremist” who provocate that either. It's ok to open your eyes to the reality.
Alex,
The Christian word for Jihad is “Crusade.” Just an FYI.
The crusades ended hundreds of yers go.
Oh. Someone told me there were like 200,000 Christian troops deployed in two different Muslim countries. But if you're telling that was over, like, hundreds of years ago, then whew, thank God. Glad to know my sources were wrong.
There are no laws prohibiting the practice of Islam belief in this country. That is the reality. We did not start mass extraditions after 9/11. What happens in other countries bears no relevance on the essential right of people in a free nation to worship without unfair restrictions.
You would not like to live in a country that did otherwise. Paranoia can cause extreme reactions. We imprisoned Americans during WWII whose only “crime” was being of Japanese descent. I hope we will never be that foolish again
Which is why I'm against all organized religion, period. But that's just me.
Brian,
You must have voted for Obama if you do not know the difference. I do not care if you are pro war or anti war but 200k “Christian troops” were stationed after that event called 9/11 – remember WTC, over 3,000 dead. Also you probably forgot that WTC was bombed in the mid 90s…. rings the bell?
Arthur,
Your argument makes perfect sense. This is why I am against all of humanity.
And a federal office building was bombed in Oklahoma by right wing Christian Zealots. And what about the Christian nut that killed 27 people in a church in Virginia because their view were too liberal. Or the crazed “Christians” that bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors who perform them. I could think of many more examples; these are but a few.
This doesn't mean that Christians, even fundamentalists, are necessarily killers.
I think i spotted the perfect location for the Mosque if the Musliim Community would consider it. The Clean O Rama building on Nostrand Ave between Neck and V. It's an existing structure so they wouldn't have to build a new one. It's a pretty big building that could most likely be retrofitted or altered to suit their needs. It has quite a few parking spaces and if they asked nice they could most likely borrow/rent some more at pre-determined times from Perry's, S&D and the Kings Bay Y. In fact being right across from a Jewish Center like the Y offers ample opportunity to hold various unity events between the two.
From the perspective of public transportation it's a better option then Voorhies and East 28th. They'd still have access to the B36 and B44 but also to the B3.
I dunno, maybe I'm nuts but this location seems to resolve every issue the community could possibly think of to argue against the Mosque.
I'm all for humanity. It's people that are the problem.
It would be a good choice. But some religious groups want to build their own structure. The owner of the property may not wish to sell.
Maybe it is because neither Jewish place of worship nor Christian would propagate holy war under pretense of a prayer. Sheepshead Bay does not need a mosque and Islamic school, and come to think of it, there are very few Muslims in that particular area anyway, who is going to worship there, like they gonna come from Coney Island avenue or something? I think this mosque sh*t is really a cover up for some kind of jihad organization.
There are quite a number of Islamic practitioners here. Several thousand at least. And its absurd to postulate that they are jihadists. There's no evidence at all to prove such an assertion. In the absence of such we assume that their intentions are benign. That is the law. Otherwise we are interfering with the right of individuals to practice their religion.
There's an interesting debate going on in the Netherlands with the Dutch MP Geert Wilders. He could be viewed as an instigator or a realist but he was hauled into court for stating his opinion in a country that is even more liberal than the US.
[...] first Community Board 15 meeting of 2010 looks like it’ll be a heated one, with residents opposed to a Sheepshead Bay mosque appealing to the board for support. Of course, the mosque has little to worry about since they [...]
not true – they go to worship 5 times a day at all different times – you won't even see them. What is the problem here? It's ok for jews and christians to go to synagogue, church, but muslims aren't alowed to go? I am a Protestant, by the way
My point precisely! FIVE times a day. Parking will be overwhelming etc.
Jews, Christians; they don't bother anyone, for the most part. They don't setup shop outside they're community, especially on a major vehicular artery. Not to say Muslims always do. Just right here, in this particular are would cause a lot of uncalled for traffic of sorts.
My folks are Muslim, I work with Jews and Christians.
[...] 300 people turned up for Tuesday night’s Community Board 15 meeting, where opponents of a Sheepshead Bay mosque were expected to seek the board’s [...]
[...] Residents in Sheepshead Bay have been opposing a mosque that is going to be built on 2812 Voorhies Avenue. The mosque plans to build as-of-right meaning they will build within zoning and not apply for any special variances. [...]
[...] is an e-mail exchange I had with a reader today regarding the controversial plans to build a mosque at 2812/2814 Voorhies Avenue (and here). The reader believed I reported on the issue with a preconceived opinion that [...]
Gene, The property was sold. The zoning allows for the construction of such a structure “as of right”. That's pretty much the beginning and end of it.
and my questions are:
1. “as of right” can you built the worship in somebodies backyards?
2. “as of right” the community has a mob mentatly according to the owner of the property?
3. “as of right” it's kosher to hate muslims – acording to the owner again?
Thank you, Lisanne!, for making so much sense! Including the comment about people and humanity.
Why don’t you Google Muslim American Society and Mahdi Bray?
Read articles from The Chicago Tribune, New York Post (by Adam Brodsky). Go on the anti-defamation league’s web site and look up Muslim American Society or MAS. Youtube Mahdi Bray.
Decide for yourself if people fighting the Mosque are Islamophobes or if the have legitimate concerns.
Please sign the petition and forward this link to your friends:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/nomosquessb
Your petition is unconsititutional in its expectations. Weaken their right to practice their form of worship and you weaken everyone's right to worship freely. It's that simple. No legislative body, and no court would recognize your right to infringe upon the rights of others.
Therefore, it is a wasted effort.
here you go
http://yesforsheepsheadbaymosque.blogspot.com/
old one, we had three 2000 in each.. Google it
too old.
I dont think that is fair for anyone ,whatever is his religion to refuse that another one can have right for a place where he can practice his religion.In this country, all citizen have the same right to practice their religion as long they dont bother others. It completely stupid when a man said that his kids are scared to go to P.S52 by the mosque.The kids dont believe only what we tell them .This is a big crime to teach kids discrimination and racism instead of teaching them how to accept and respect the others.This country is the country of the immigrants.The law doesnt allow any kind of discrimination on basic of the color the ethnicity,race….
Let this people have a mosque like all the jews and the christian have churches and synagoges everywhere.
[...] fliers from opposite sides of a controversial Sheepshead Bay mosque are being distributed around the neighborhood, each packed with heated [...]
many people are sooooo racist. theses mulism are so respectful and nice. the respect me not because im black they respect me for i am …and all of the other people who reject the mosque should be ashamed, how dare you go against some ones relgion do u know this is america( freedom, peace)
mulisms are wonderful people
how can some person go against another relgion. HELLOO people this is america….. these muslims are respectful . most people judge people on their relgion and i am the type of person that doesn't. this is america even though law are not absolute i believe muslims should have the right to build a mosque for themselve just like how jews build temples, christians build churches..and so on
I hate the way the authorities just say: “because you have to live together.”
Why did anybody ask us???? It is just shoved onto us, just get on with each other. Do you have any idea that Islam is not compatible with christian values? Or our culture? Do you know they hate everything about us? Did you know, that Islam is seeking WORLD DOMINATION? And is getting it? How can you do this to us, WE DON'T WANT TO LIVE NEXT DOOR TO THOSE THUGS, THAT BELIEVE IN A BOOK FULL OF HATRED TOWARDS US!! How could you do this to us?? Ban the Quran!
put the mosque in and maybe we could push out the russian whore! At least these people dont bother you
[...] a second plan, and is now proceeding with construction of the mosque without the minaret. In an article on Sheepsheadbites.com, Ken Lazar, the Department of Building’s community affairs liaison, said that religious [...]
They did not include that this mosque will be built for a whopping thousand 500 people, and will be 6 stories! This is a quiet neighborhood, and it is crazy to build it near a school. There are no synagoges in Muslim cummonities, that is why there is no protest. i hope it does not get built
Those numbers are incorrect. The group says they plan to serve approximately 150 families. It requested 4 stories with a roof extension initially, for which it was denied. believe now they are looking to make it 4 stories sans minaret, but I don't have the info in front of me at this moment.
Also, there are many, MANY areas in Brooklyn alone in which Muslim communities are adjacent to Jewish communities, and you do see synagogues on the borders.
[...] for the Sheepshead Bay mosque are hosting a Park Slope group’s annual walk for peace in our neighborhood to demonstrate [...]
i like smart people … but i don't like people trying to be smart (about you, tina)
If the people(sic) who are so vehemently opposed to this mosque and the worshippers who would make it their sanctuary would think back to the times they or their forebears were ostracized and castigated for attempted to join this or other communities a change of heart would occur. Would you deny these Muslims the same rights that you or your ancestors fought for? Would you deny a Mother and her child the right to worship and follow their belief system in peace?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paypaul/4689036295/
I saw a father walking through with his young son.
Son: “what's going on Dad”
Dad: “I'll explain to you when you are older, it's about freedom.”
That is so touching. But even the youngest of children should learn about freedom. It's supposed to be the one thing that all of us in this country should be able to count on. It's a pity that so many people who have its benefits don't desire that others will also have them as well.
What's wrong with a Minaret? It would be a far more attractive site than the garbage architecture of the many McMansions going up around here. If other houses of worship are allowed their sacred motifs why should these people be denied theirs?
What's wrong with a Minaret? It would be a far more attractive site than the garbage architecture of the many McMansions going up around here. If other houses of worship are allowed their sacred motifs why should these people be denied theirs?
[...] that quality of life issues could be a credible complaint when separated from anti-Muslim rhetoric. We reported in January: Scavo added that the group might have a chance if they fought their battle on the concrete issues [...]
No, of cours ethey dont bother you, they just like to kill by thousands!
Ken Lazar should be fired from DOB. He did a lot of bad things on Ford Street. He's corrupt.
the diversity in sheepshead bay is more than imaqined, mashallah, we muslims in the community of sheepshead bay would be more than happy to have a place of worship where all muslims in the community can qo to every single day. all there is, is complains, i do not know why it is anyones business when it comes to muslims buildinq a place of worship in any borough or country. we also need riqhts in this nation. we need a place to worship as much as any faith and reliqion all over the world!!!!! and yes they are plenty of muslims in sheepshead bay, im suprised u dont see em they are all over the place. may allah help and support every religion and faith around the world and stop the hate, and seqreation amonq each other.