At the far corner of Sheephead Bay, where it joins Manhattan Beach and Brighton Beach, is a sign that causes a whole mess of confusion, traffic backups, and horn honking. One might think it’s pretty clear: “After Stop Right Turn Permitted On Red Except 8am – 4pm School Days”. You might ask yourself what’s so confusing about this sign on Neptune Avenue and Cass Place that’s written out in pretty clear English. But many in the area can’t seem to agree on what qualifies as a school day. The corner is constantly backed up on days school is not in session due to drivers not knowing what qualifies as a school day. Summer was particularly precarious because nobody knew if summer school counts. What about snow days, Jewish holidays, and a plethora of other days? Doesn’t “school day” mean Monday through Friday or “Any Day School is in Session.” After some poking around on the DOT’s website, the only mention of school days I could find is a note that parking in a school zone is permissible when school is not in recess.
So which is it? Shouldn’t the sign just read Monday – Friday, September – June? It’s not as if there isn’t enough space, the No Parking signs in Manhattan Beach are seasonal. One must also call into question why school days even matter. The nearest school is three blocks away on Brighton 14th. Have you been caught in traffic behind this sign? What do you think?
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i turn here at least once a day to go home 2 blocks away which is where the school is it is not on brighton 14th but on 12th and 13th and if you go there at 2:30-3:00 there are alot of kids and families. its really simple monday-friday including summer school. the days that are exceptions are national holidays thats it. people are lazy they dont want to read the rest of it or just dont give a fuck. about a month ago i was at the light waiting for the green and the car behind me is honking like crazy i was about to get out of my car to educate him when a pedestrian started screaming at him to explain that he cant turn until 4pm. so i turn now at the light on corbin and cass and this guy pulls next to me to apologize that he was honking and tells me he doesnt have his glasses so couldnt read the sign i told him thats a great excuse im sure the cops will love that one. that whole stretch of road is messed up they put up a new light between this and coney which causes alot of traffic and this lane should be a turning lane only so when you can turn on red there are no cars sitting there that are not turning. they should put a turn on red sign at corbin and cass theres a light there but its a T and not 4 way. who do i contact about that does anyone know.
Let me ask you this question..what do you when you have a car on that side of the road which not making a turn but waiting for a light to turn green in order to drive straight.
I personally patiently wait for a light to change green to make a turn, but some nut cases start honking like mad people.
This sign can definitely be confusing, especially since we have a basic ‘no-right turn at stop lights’ city.
Someone intending to drive straight on Emmons Ave really ought not to be sitting in the right lane and honking at those waiting to turn in front. Eventually, as they cross the intersection, they will need to do the dangerous cut off /lane change in front of cars that stayed in the middle.
In this city, we will be hard pressed to find a place without a school nearby. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the Bay Academy (I.S. 98) very close to this intersection at 1401 Emmons Ave?
I believe that the Department of Transportation will eventually do testing to see if this sign is fitting at this spot. You might try the “Report a Problem” section at the NYC DOT website or call 311. Try sending this article’s link to any local elected official and see who answers. Either way, it will require a lot of follow up on concerned residents’ part.
@BakiShamil:
Thats right, it is not marked as a “right turn-only” lane – neither with pavement markings, nor with overhead signs.
@Ray:
I believe Bay Academy is one block straight ahead from this intersection. So there would be no reason to restrict right turn because of them.
There really should not be “right turn on red” permitted anywhere in 5 boroughs – I’m sure it will reduce the number of road rage and accidents.
So is Arthur going to have a permanent column with this title?
This intersection has never been a favorite as mine as a pedestrian. When I was young I avoided it whenever possible. I don’t remember that sign being there 40 years ago and cars constantly made fast right turns onto Cass. There’s also a tricky left turn for cars coming off Cass onto the west bound lanes of Neptune.
Cass Place was a pretty bad idea. It wasn’t part of the original street plan for that area. I suppose that automoblists wanted to get to Manhattan Beach in a more direct way, and so it was changed.
These were the original plans for the area.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisanne001/4080551583/
I’m quite sure this crossing has given DOT numerous headaches. There’s no easy solution. Schools hold summer sessions as well.
But wait, students should be crossing on the red.
no, the right lane is not a turning only lane even though it should be. and there is no reason not to have turn on red sign where it makes sense. if there is no cross traffic then why not have them. 2 reasons people honk at this stop is most dont read the sign fully and 2nd is the lane should be a turning lane so when you can turn on red there arent cars in that lane that arent turning. i dont think that turning on red where permitted causes alot of accidents. these signs are in places where there is no cross traffic. i have been living around the corner from this intersection most of my life and really the cross walk you see in the picture is hardly ever used by pedestrians. the cross walk used more often is at the light going towards the east 12th bridge. oh and new york is one of the only places where you cant turn on red most states allow this unless there is a sign that says you cant. with so many people in a hurry they are just trying to slow us down.
Good pointing that fact out everyone. I competly forgot to mention that there SHOULD BE a right turn lane there.
That intersection gets pretty crowded and confusing because it has so many different streets pouring into it.
Neptune, Guilder, East 12th and the East 12th Bridge, and any traffic turning right from Brighton 10th. Not more then 40 feet before the intersection you’ve got cars turning left to get to the Bridge also.
@Lev: Actually I think we need more Right Turn on Red locations in the city. It’s one thing to slow down traffic for safety. Its another to needlessly waste peoples time.
Anyway, DOT should take a long hard look at this intersection. At they very least remove the School Day part and replace it with Monday – Friday, period.
the faster you go the safer it is.
http://autos.aol.com/article/utah-speed-limit-tests
I’d never consider the driving behaviors of Utahans to be consistent with that of natives of other states. (spell check says I’m right-it’s Utahans) Everything is more spread there, street planning is more modern, and Mormons don’t drive drunk.
I meant “spread out”
Ned, when will we see a post-edit feature?
Lisanne, in the photo, I see from ocean ave all the way to orential blvd or shore blvd? is that correct? Was this changed from the original plans? or am I too young to even know about this.
The bridge over Sheepshead Bay was originally over Ocean Avenue and ran straight. It was rebuilt one block to the west in 1938.
Ocean Avenue still does continue on the Manhattan Beah side between Exeter and Falmouth.
i walk by there a lot. i’ve seen fights almost break out. The guy in front doesn’t want to make the right, he intends to go straight. The people behind him want to make the right. Of course, they can’t wait a minute, their life depends on making that right-on-red, so they honk horns. I’ve seen a few actually get out of their car!