I had the pleasure of meeting a lovely young lady a few days ago at an event in Manhattan. We were just at the beginning of our niceties, exchanging some basic information about what part of the city we live in, when she stated something about her experience with Sheepshead Bay.
Young Lady: Oh, hi. It’s nice to meet you, Ray. And where do you live?
Me: I’m from Sheepshead Bay.
Young Lady: Oh, you’re from Sheepshead Bay?
Me: Yeah. You heard of it?
Young Lady: I used to go there a lot, but I don’t like to go to there, anymore.
Me: Really? Why?
Young Lady: Because, every time I go there all the Russian people start speaking in Russian to me. I tell them that I’m not Russian and I don’t speak Russian, but they still keep talking to me in Russian. I don’t know why they do that. I don’t even wanna go back there.
Me: (looking dumbfounded) Oh, I see.
Has anyone ever had a similar experience as my new friend? Would an experience such as the one my new friend described make you want to stay away from Sheepshead Bay or would it make you feel welcomed as part of the community? Speak up, here. Russian language speakers welcome.
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All the time!!! I don’t mind them speaking Russian, but when they persitently address my non-Russian speaking friends in Russian (usually the case is the waiters at the restaurants), it can get quite annoying…
its not just russians. my friend is philipino and and chinese people always talk to him in chinese even after he tries to tell them hes not.
This shit happens all the time with the Russians in Sheepshead Bay. Even at my wife’s office. the Russian’s yabber on in Russian all day.
In Goldfish, a fish on Ocean Ave, once they find out you don’t speak Russian, you no longer exist. At Net Cost Market – some cashier was talking to me in Russian when I said I didn’t speak it, he made a face and checked my stuff, clearly annoyed.
I know that I shy away from the Russian places because of how rude many of them are to the non- Russians. It’s costing them business, but they don’t seem to care
The same holds true for any ethnic neighborhood in the city. If you go shopping at a business thats clearly owned by that ethnic group, that’s there to service their group, they don’t really care you’re there or want you there.
It’s a really foolish way to do business. Instead of striving to make communication easier to improve Cultural Diffusion so we can all share in the best things of our cultures (The FOOD of all things) all these people want to do is live here and benefit from American laws and rights and privileges without contributing back.
We would be a much stronger community, City and State and Nation scale wise if all just embraced one another and were willing to communicate in a single language, that being English.
That’s not to say people shouldn’t retain their own languages, they should, but everyone should know their language AND English. Why wont people wake up to that simple fact?
I heard many years ago (when Russia was considered and called the Soviet Union) that teaching English was mandatory in schools there. What doea that have to do with the question…well that would make this all mute because if this were true then they understand English and should be speaking it here especially to Americans and someone is yanking our chain.
This happens all the time. Virtually everywhere I go. I can be on a bus, train, in a store, etc. and some man or woman will start speaking Russian to me. I always say the same thing, “I don’t speak or understand Russian.” One of two things happen. They either start speaking English or immediately look for someone else who understands them. Frankly, it annoys me that there is an automatic assumption that I’m going to understand Russian. Yes, there are a lot of Russians in Sheepshead Bay, but there are English-speaking people here as well.
I was on the B68 bus not too long ago and a Russian woman got on (about 70) who didn’t speak English. She started yelling at everyone sitting down in the front of the bus in Russian. A Russian man translated that she wanted someone to get up so she could sit (the translation wasn’t necessary), but her arrogant, entitled attitude and yelling pissed off everyone. No one would get up. Frankly, if she had asked nicely, she would have had a seat. I’ve been seeing behavior like this a lot lately.
I go by the rule of English being the universal language and if a store doesn’t write it in English then they don’t need nor want my U.S. dollars.
The young immigrants that I know speak English fairly well. They learned it in school in their native countries which have much better foreign language programs then in the U.S… What I find, not only with Russians but also with Turks, Greeks, Italians, and many others is that speaking their native language in front of non-speakers appears to be a reaction to a basic inferiority complex. Leaving their native country and coming to the U.S., implies that the U.S. and Americans are superior to their native country. It is easy then to become defensive and hide behind a native language that “Americans” don’t understand. Being fluent in two languages is one way to strike back. In this age of polarization who wants to feel inferior? Everyone needs to feel “above average”.
BrooklynQ—-<—–Reexamine your motives!!!
My mother complains about that whenever she visits me. The ironic thing is that I speak Russian (not natively; I’ve just been studying it for four years), but no one tries to speak it to me, even when I’m in Russian stores, because I look so obviously non-Russian.
I wouldn’t say it’s a uniquely Russian thing, though. Where I used to live, everyone tried to speak Spanish to me.
Hate when it happens. And if you don’t, you are treated like crap. It’s a lie that other ethnic groups are like that. You can go into any enclave in NYC and be treated politely, and if you shop, they are happy to have your money. Not in Russian stores, where they loathe your presence.
I’ve lived all over the world, and never had the problems with people like I have had with Russians in Brooklyn. It’s appalling.
ann dont go into russian stores anymore and you wont have to feel that way
Ой, сколько здесь инностранцев то собралось! А о чём базар? Ничего не понимаю. Где все Русские??
Reading this reminds me of our family preparing to gather for Thanksgiving. The Grandparents on both sides of the family are from Italy. 80 years of Thanksgiving Dinners in Brooklyn and they still will speak Italian to each other at the dinner table. And outside on the streets to other Italians. Can you believe, they try to get us to speak Italian.
None of this being able to speak more then one language for me. I’m not going to feel bad any longer that I only speak Brooklyn English. No opera this year either…
It’s not only the Russians. We need to do something about about old Italians, Asians and just what language do the Irish speak…
As a non russian member of the sheepshead bay community let me first say that I have no problem living in a culturally diverse area. I grew up in Bensonhurst with a good number of italian and asian people. I shopped at their stores and even if they didnt speak english well there was always some willingness to communicate and a few signs in english. As long as they tried I was happy to shop there even if I looked like the odd one out.
After moving to Sheepshead I noticed at some places (not all) an unwillingness to welcome in others who were not a part of their ethnic community. No signs at all that I could understand and looks from shop workers that make me feel like an intruder and not a part of the same community as theirs. I didn’t have to speak the language to understand that they did not want my business.
Even in my own apartment building fliers are put up in areas where public notices are placed only in Russian and I feel the divide more. There really are two communities here….and its that whole “members only” feel that I think has helped foster some of the bitterness that I and others in my community sometimes feel.
Its odd though because I have a couple of Russian friends and coworkers – and they are the nicest of people but even they admit my feelings are legit when I ask them about the divide.
Who knows.. perhaps after a few generations have lived and been born here things will be more open (like it was with the italian community) but for now this is how it is. Sad though..
I lived in Sheepshead bay my whole life, until I moved about 3 years ago….so I lived through the whole transformation of the neighborhood to a heavily Russian community. For years I thought that Russian people were rude, that their language was brutish and that the food was repulsive ….until I got a little older and mature….then I realized that I was just intimidated by the HUGE influx of such a different culture in my own backyard. Not many people will feel comfortable with such a quick and drastic change of the neighborhood that they call home….this is why a lot of natives to the area despise the Russians. As I got a little older and mature, I realized that Russians are just like everyone else in the world….some of them are rude and offensive and some of them are nice and pleasant to be around. My old (Russian) neighbors were so sweet and classy…they helped to steer my perspective in the right direction.
The Irish felt the same way about the Italians 60 years ago…so on and so forth. It is kind of funny however to watch yet another guido culture emerge among these new immigrants lol…..
Just go into Ginger Rose and try and get your haircut if you don’t look Russian…they’ll leave you just standing there and then send you to the worst stylist they have on staff. If you look Russian, just keep your mouth shut and do your best to look cocky and they’ll treat you like gold. LOL.
Zak. You are a racist. Reexamine your motives…
cobalt420 you sound old. Reexamine your prostate.
Alex, aka Motives Reexaminer, that’s not really a fair way to argue. Please knock it off. Whether you think people are racist, these are the experiences people have and it’s how some people really feel. If you think their assessment is wrong – and in some cases I’m sure it is – then engage them and try to show them another side of the culture.
Like many have pointed out here, it’s difficult when any neighborhood faces ethnic and racial changes. It doesn’t make the situation any better when people are finally discussing their honest feelings in front of one another and someone comes in and starts pointing the “racism” finger. It just adds to the bitterness and resentment.
What I would like to see is some of the people who think Russians are rude pricks to get together with some of the Russian readers on this site and make an attempt to educate each other. Yes, lovey-dovey preachy shit, I know. But, like xtina, I lived here all my life and at first felt alienated by the changes in my neighborhood. But my Russian friends, who introduced me to their families, who introduced me to their foods, to their drinks, to their games, and to their language, made me realize – like xtina – that I was being insecure and immature. That’s not racism, it’s simply growing up.
So instead of just being smug, Alex, why don’t you try to extend some bridges?
Ned,
Recognize the sarcasm in this. I was just joking around….
I’m just glad they stopped saying “No problem”.
no problem
russians are awesome. i love their language, i love their accents. whenever i try to speak russian i feel like a fool, but i do what i can. some people laugh, some people appreciate that i’m trying.
i grew up speaking both english and spanish. it’s always a difficult transition into american culture when you are connected to two countries. if you act too “american”, then you’re ignoring your cultural heritage. if you act too (in my case) “latina” then you’re rejecting your american heritage. it’s such a struggle, and one that russians probably face everyday in sheepshead bay.
guys, just remember, if you bump into rude russians, like that lady on the bus that Linda mentioned earlier here, it’s NOT because they are russian, it is because they are rude as a PERSON.
this is how stereotypes are born…
I struggle with some of the stuff people are talking about here. I am sometimes mistaken for Russian and have salespeople start speaking to me in Russian; generally, MOST of the time, I still get decent enough treatment when the salespeople realize I can’t speak Russian. No one has ever been particularly welcoming, but I’ve only encountered a couple of instances where I clearly felt people were being rude.
However, I’ve encountered enough coldness/rudeness from Russians to feel like it DOES happen a little more to me with this ethic group than it does with most other ethnic groups I’ve encountered. Mostly with younger Russians. NOT ALL by any means, though! Here’s my take on this: any Russians, or others reading this let me know if I’m making any sense.
Many older, less educated Russians are like a lot of immigrants to this country: not totally assimilated, perhaps somewhat hampered by their inability to totally navigate this country, language, etc.
So they act like a lot of immigrants: either they keep to themselves (and if you blunder into their world, they might not be really welcoming because they don’t really know how to deal with you if you only speak English or Spanish or whatever) or they use human warmth– and the few words they have going for them– to reach out to non-Russians.
They know, like most dark skinned immigrants, for instance, or like the Irish and Italians and Jews all knew, 100 years ago, that they are relatively low-status folks because they can’t “operate” in the US yet like a native speaker might be able to. If THESE people seem rude and haughty, I DO think this is often out of insecurity. It’s more of a way to self- protect than anything else. And the flip side is that a lot of these people are EXCEEDINGLY nice, often over-the-top, in the same way that housekeepers everywhere are nice– nice because they understand their low-status and operate out of it. I have run across quite a few Russians grandmas in the park who sort of fall into this category…they keep to themselves but when/if they interact, they can be exceedingly polite, kind and self-effacing.
But then there’s another group of Russians and they are different. Highly educated and/or young, they ARE different from a lot of other ethnic groups. They are NOT like most Spanish immigrants, or African immigrants, or Asian immigrants, or Carribean immigrants. Let’s be honest here: they’re WHITE. They CAN speak English. Dressed in nice clothes, they “fit” in the top levels of our society in a way that a lot of immigrants still don’t. They look like the frigging founding fathers of this country!! And they’re European, whether or not that’s how they choose to self-identify. And they are uber-Americans: they know which schools are the good schools, where to send your kid for ballet classes, which martial arts studios are the best, etc. And sometimes the best schools/ballet classes/martial arts studios (locally) are Russian-owned. Many of these people know how to work the system as well as any long-term New Yorker, or better. Some of them have a lot of money. They are probably more comparable to New Yorkers of a certain class than they are to anybody else–and yes, some are snotty, and some are entitled, some are very status-conscious and judge those who don’t conform to their standards. I don’t think Russians are necessarily any worse than anyone else; in fact, I think this particular group I’m talking about have assimilated faster and better than most immigrants and are in a certain way, a special case. If they’re rude, I think it’s in the same way a reasonable well-off New Yorker could be rude…
It’s my feeling that what can repel some people about how SOME Russians act is more about perceived CLASS differences than, in the end, an indictment of Russians or Russian culture.
Am I making any sense to anyone else?
lisa, you make only one good point. THIS IS NEW YORK people are rude they are in a hurry most dont care about your feelings. it doesnt matter if your russian. i was born here and speak russian. i try not to shop on brighton because i hate the crowds. the times i do go into stores i speak english and if they do look at me funny i dont care stop reading into this so much. did you get what you came for is the product any different if you were speaking russian. you dont have to take the russian home with you. there are all types of rude people. and some comments here are are ridiculous if you said some of these things about black or mexicans it would be looked at as racist. im sure no one here ever had a bad experience with any other people from different cultures or backgrounds. years ago i came across this very good little italian deli on 11th ave in Dyker. they have a couple of things there that i really like and go there maybe once a month. i have been going there for the last few years and usually the owner is not there just workers i have seen him a few times and took care of me. within the last year i was with my mom shes in her sixties speaks english just fine by the way. we went to the store and got what we needed standing in line and she starts talking to me in russian. the owner was there and he asks us what language we are speaking we tell him and he turns white why i dont know. he thought all these years i was italian and my mom looks european not so much russian either way the guy looks confused and shocked. i have been back since and everything is the same i just think he was like wow russians in this place buying this food. but at that moment it was a little weird. some people react differently. it wasnt nice the way he responded at that moment. but this is NYC if you dont like the way people react move. point is its all types of people not just russians. and to say most russians are rude is ignorant.
Are there any Russian brothels here?
Ann pack your stuff and get the hell out my neighborhood. You are unappreciated individual, go live in neighborhoods where no Russians. A side note majority of us are not from Russia we just speak Russian.
Russian this Russian that…….
BakiShamil Sort of like saying Americans aren’t all from New York. People from Oklahoma are greatly different than those from New York.
But please keep in mind that it is not *your* neighborhood. It it OUR neighborhood. It belongs to all of us here.
You know, the more they build the more likely it is that the neighborhood will become flooded with people from all over the world. And a lot of 2nd, 3rd, and even 9th generation Americans will start moving here. We’re all going to have to get along with each other, because if we can’t work together this neighborhood will fall apart at the seams.
Hi, I just moved here from the midwest, and I like all the different languages and cultures of Brooklyn, which is why I chose to live here instead of LI where I work. (Lived the middle class white suburbia life already…) For me, hearing and talking to the Russians are a sort of practice since I was a language major as an undergrad and require it in my job, but have never been able to use it in the US until I moved here. You don’t exactly encounter many of them in any other part of the US. My active vocabulary sucks but being around it has helped. As I look Eastern European they assume I am Russian and treat me well. (The Poles in Greenpoint do the same thing, which is funny. My heritige is Polish anyway.) I have seen negative reactions too though. But, that’s true of anywhere I’ve traveled around the world.
Now my perspective is different because I haven’t lived here long and seen the neighborhood change, but for me this is an amazing opportunity. I can actually hear and speak these languages at home instead of having to read/hear it on the net.
Where’s the German neighborhood?
I need to work on those skills too.
Maybe there are still some old time Germans left in Ridgewood.
Someone should explain the whole thing w/going shopping in a supermarket, looking all fancy and loaded with fat wallets……and woah! Out come the foodstamps??
Driving in a fancy Lexus/BMW/Mercedes, etc…but claiming that you’re poor? And the people who really are, have to suffer for these assholes?
Give me a f*n break. I’ve talked about this topic so god damn much, that I’ve exhausted myself.
The Russians I’ve encountered, almost all of them, REFUSE to assimilate. I’m sorry, but when I go to a store and see Russian first and English *second* on a sign, I get very angry.
Don’t call me a stupid asshole for not speaking Russian. It’s been done before. You come here, you learn MY language! You want Russian? Go back home.
About 20 years ago I encountered a good number of Russians that I found to be rude and totally lacking in the ability to communicate. That state of being has changed to some degree in what I see now but still their language does predominate. They don’t seem as rude now as back then. However, as much as this country has always been a nation of immigrants most of those immigrants by the first or second generation had adapted English as their spoken language. My mother, whose parents and siblings only spoke their native language, discouraged her from learning it and insisted she learn and speak English to be accepted by her classmates and the neighborhood kids. Yet, the Russian community is so strong that they have been able to bypass any of this pressure to assimilate.
I enjoy the access to this and some of the other cultures. However it would be very helpful if, when I go into a place like Net Cost, which sells a lot of yummy looking Russian food, that I knew what it was. The only things I’ve been able to buy with any degree of certainty as to its quality is the Kvas, pastries, candies and some of the meats. Thankfully the stores accept my American currency and I don’t have to know the exchange rate of the Ruble.
What would people think of a little diplomatic meetup, where we get a good expert on Russian foods to take us curious non-Russians around to the local markets for exploration and sampling of some foods?
Zak, I have a Russian barber I go to on 24th Street and U. I like the guy and actually enjoy the music being played in there even though I can’t understand a word. He’s a good old fashioned barber who knows how to cut hair. It doesn’t matter to me where he’s from. He does a good job.
Good idea Ned. I think though that these stores do need to do more to bring in customers from all over the city. Providing English translations of their signs would be a step in the right direction. It’s just good business sense.
The one thing that strikes me as a real positive about the Net Cost store is that most, if not all prices are posted clearly on shelf talkers(shelf tags) that are clearly printed and visible.
Food always brings people together, I guess. Either that, or a food fight.
i hate writing but i need to put some of thses fools in line. ned set it up.
these
So called “Russians” by fat the most assimilated people from all other ethnic groups. If you think you can’t assimilate to Russian-Speaking community then you have no chance surviving in any other neighborhoods of Brooklyn.
Enjoy your day people
*fat by far
Вася, lol…
i speak russian and i always get russian people trying to ask me something in english… instead of complaining why dont you learn some witty reply in russian to battle with these ruskis or stop dressing and looking like a russian babushka.
First, a shoutout to Вася – LOL indeed.
I thought the Cold War was over – yet I see a number of people are still afraid of Russians.
As we are all trying to decide who was here first, I think the only fair solution is for ALL OF US to go back to wherever our grandparents came from, apologize to Native Americans and pay them compensation for illegally taking their land.
Since that is not going to happen, how about we all chill, and, in the true New York spirit, mind our own business?
First step is to realize that shopping at Net Cost is optional. Then, of course, there is homework: write an essay on “How the case of Sacco and Vanzetti illustrates prejudice against immigrants in the United States throughout history”. Hint: neither Sacco nor Vanzetti was Russian.
For more entertaining reading, check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_only
In conclusion, an autobiographical note:
She is Ukrainian and I’m Jewish. I did learn English in school; although my wife studied French (haven’t quite learned it, though). We both graduated from a 5-year college with a degree in Computer Science.
My wife and I were born in the Soviet Union, let’s say, a few years before Moscow Olympic Games
Immigrated to the US in the 90’s, and became US citizen a few years later, after passing both English proficiency and US Civics tests. We have not used a dime of public assistance funds ever, although did use Medicaid for a few months before I found my first job. Registered with Selective Service. Registered to vote, and voted in every election since became citizen (including primary elections). We are also card-carrying members of Amnesty International, ACLU, Peace Action and NOW. I have tax returns filed and copies available for every year since the 90s.
Last, but not least, we speak English almost exclusively everywhere, including with our children (however, I promise to speak only Ukrainian with BrooklynQ and ME).
I wonder which stereotypes expressed above apply to us. And most importantly, do we qualify to be equal to Ann members of the community?
Lev: No one will believe you unless you post those tax returns here for everyone else to see. And your social security number. And bank account/credit card numbers. Also, show us a copy of your signature so we know exactly how to copy it to buy some christmas gifts for our families and friends and ourselves.
Thanks for sharing and helping disprove some of the stereotypes that are running a little too rampant in our community.
Hey there,
I want to be clear about one thing– in my post above, I’m trying out some theories but I don’t claim they’re necessarily right!.
I DO think that Russians, as (mostly) white immigrants (and many who meet the old-fashioned American beauty ideal of blond hair/blue eyes) have a certain advantage, once they’ve gotten to a certain point, over other “colored” immigrants. The point I was trying to make is that between this “fitting in” and the huge numbers of Russians who’ve immigrated, Russians do not have to “act nice.” . I am NOT saying that ANYONE should have to “act nice” in public, by the way! In New York, we all know that being a little cold to the general public is mostly just good protection…
I think there is often an assumption that someone who does not speak English as a first language will be deferential…and my point was that a l fair number of Russians don’t/aren’t. I’m not saying they are ruder than average assimilated New Yorkers– more like they’re pretty much the same as your average assimilated, rude-in-public New Yorker. Because they don’t HAVE to “make nice” the way your average Mexican/Pakistani/Haitian almost HAS to… (or he/she is going to get some bad treatment by the more racist among us). I’m not sure this is a bad thing about Russians–it may be a bad thing about what all the rest of us 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th generation people assume about the more recently arrived.
Ok, again…does that make sense?
And yes, I’d love a run-through of Russian foods. I love Net Cost but agree, I’d be thrilled to know what some of the stuff is in English…
Lisa, i would say that they are as rude or as nice as any other person in nyc, whether they assimilated or not. i have met some rude obnoxious russians, but i have met plenty of americans who are just as rude and just as obnoxious and probably feel liek they dont have to be nice even more then anyone else since they are in their own country with all these immigrants around.
i am sure you can get all your food translations here, just ask….
well, well, well……first time here and so delighted to see so many aging old-school morons complaining about Russians moving into “their” neighborhood. LOL. first lets recall what was the Sheepshead bay area in 20 years back. remember? right. a sewer filled with low-life illiterate fishermen. who re-built this neighborhood? right. we, Russians did. we put the prices so high to make a neighborhood populated by WHITE folks, by nonviolent people. do you want Negroes to move in? are you complaining about us being rude? please appreciate that Sheepshead Bay remains the only Brooklyn area were you can take a walk at night without being smashed on you head by a crazed Negro or mugged by another colored punk. people, this is NY we are talking about. yes, we might be rude or unpleasant or whoever you think we are, not that we care, but please note that with all that crap you are saying about us we are the most nonviolent and most prosperous people among south Brooklyn. all of you are just envious because you were so dumb and lazy to finish a decent school and have a high paying jobs. I came here with no money and no English. 20 years later I am a manager at Wall Street with a six figure salary. do I care about your sentiments? read my lips – NO. I pay about 40-50 K a year in taxes and think that I owed nothing to that country what I deeply respect BTW. so stop bitching about somebody bought you fro being Russian and thank your catholic god that you are white and nobody speaks to you in Jamaican accent thinking that you are a sub human monkey.
вот блять тупые ебланы. грубые мы. сегодня точно приду домой, выйду на Эммонс, найду кто по нашенски не шарит и пошлю нахуй
It’s been awhile since I’ve heard such blatant racism.
Your recollection of Sheepshead Bay is quite flawed, as is your attitude.
Lisanne! whose fault that normal people despise blacks? theirs. I would understand anti-Semites if 50 % of Jews were behind bars and the other 50 % sneaking around at night looking something to steal. yes there are very intelligent and nice African-Americans, I agree. I just never been in those parts of Africa or America where they breed. go live in Crown Heights or East NY for a while and than we will talk.
There are a lot of blacks in Sheepshead Bay. There is a black community here that dates back 100 years.
Racism is never acceptable. Whether its directed against Russians, blacks, or any other group.
You can only earn respect when you give it.
Lisanne!
“Racism is never acceptable.”
it is the matter of opinion.
it depends what is the root cause of the problem.
trust me. I came here as a friend to the whole African American population. But after 20 smthng years living with them, working with them, commuting with them…..I saw that those people deserve all bad rap they have around them. It is their parasite mentality that serves them no good. Their perception that the world owes them something. Their inability to understand the consequences of their actions. Their laziness. Their ignorance toward life of others. Their violence. Their culture, better the absence of such.
“It is their parasite mentality that serves them no good. Their perception that the world owes them something. Their inability to understand the consequences of their actions. Their laziness. Their ignorance toward life of others. Their violence. Their culture, better the absence of such.”
It’s funny that – even in the comments above – some people have used the same language to criticize Eastern Europeans. Seems a bit telling to me.
FYI – Same language the Nazis described the Jews in.
Ned. I see where you are coming. But with all due respect I tend to disagree.
lets see our society or our world as a huge organism. now some of the cells start to behave abnormally causing cancer and putting the whole organism at danger. we have a choice of surgically removing the sick cells or try to pursue them to be good cells explaning them that the whole structure will be extinct if they do not stop to grow abnormally.
If only society was a huge orgasm….that would be awesome.
Leave the Russians alone! I enjoy the drugs they sell, they’re cheesy lounge singers, and I can’t say enough about their whores, strippers and prostitutes. (Thank goodness there’s an “аптека” on every block). So STOP hating!
Ok, Lisanne! Thank you. I 100% agree. Racism is never acceptable.
And Micha- I have NOT had to look far AT ALL to find all sorts of cool black people around me. IN Sheepshead Bay. My (black) Jamaican tenants upstairs are educated (the husband is working on his masters degree while working full-time as a computer programmer), enterprising, polite, personable, clean, etc. etc. My black kids in my daughter’s preK class are as cute and smart and kind as all of the other kids (and have clearly “together” parents). The black people living on either side of me have good jobs and nice kids and keep housing values up by maintaining their apartments/balconies very nicely. THEY ARE HERE FOR THE SAME REASON YOU ARE: they want to be in a safe community with other people who take care of their houses and pay their taxes.
Saywhatuthink: Lisanne! already said it. Racism is not acceptable.
Ned: have you considered a “if you engage in hate-speech, be forewarned, I will delete your comments” policy? I like your site and would hate to see it derailed if/when people really start slinging nasty stinky mud at each other….
Lisa: Yes, that is the exact policy we currently uphold. However, there’s a fine line between hate speech, and what may just be reprehensible opinions.
You may think Misha’s point of view is deplorable. I may agree with you. But he didn’t go about screaming “Death to…” whatever group, or just fling around curses and act like a general ass. He made a point – whether we agree or disagree.
What I consider hate speech – and surely the definition is flexible – is when a commenter advocates harm to another person or people, or when their comments contribute nothing to a conversation. We had to delete a comment as recently as this weekend following the Eid article. There was no sense to it – just pure hatred.
I don’t know if you were suggesting Misha’s comments should be deleted. I used his as an example, and it contrasts well with the sort of comment we had to delete this weekend (which I don’t care to repeat). But I appreciate that you’ve given me yet another opportunity to clarify on the rules. We haven’t yet made a formal policy, but every chance I get I attempt to explain the guiding principles I use. So thanks for that.
who would think this post would be so popular…
Misha is a stuck up a-hole. Plain and simple.
So, I stumbled upon this delicious little discussion today. I read and REREAD all of your comments. WOW. I lived in Sheepshead Bay through the 90′s. I seen the bad and the good. I went to Sheepshead Bay High, Shell bank, and P.S. 52. I moved to Jersey in 2000 with my parents. I am what you would call a non-practicing Russian. I was born in the USSR. I speak primarily in English, having gone through my entire schooling here, including a university but, I am very fluent in Russian. When I go into Russian stores, although I can speak the language with no problems, I choose to speak English to them. Never had I ever had any problems.
What does it matter if the Russian stores have signs in Russian. they are specialty stores! If you don’t understand what things are, bring a friend. I know how many Russian’s are around the neighborhood. Make a friend and dive into a new culture.
Now what about China town? They all have signs that are in Cantonese/ Mandarin. WITH NO ENGLISH sign’s.
What about in Downtown Brooklyn, where you go into a West Indian store and all the signs are in their native language? This is New York people, the great melting pot, if you want to live in an all white English speaking community, move to freakin’ Missouri or Montana.
I am moving BACK to Brooklyn because of all of its diversity! Because of the different people (rude or not, this is NYC after all). You want nice, move to South Carolina. Its real nice there. people are real slow, and no crime.
“Now I could agree with this guy on this topic and I quote him:
Someone should explain the whole thing w/going shopping in a supermarket, looking all fancy and loaded with fat wallets……and woah! Out come the food stamps??
Driving in a fancy Lexus/BMW/Mercedes, etc…but claiming that you’re poor? And the people who really are, have to suffer for these assholes?”
VERY VERY GOOD POINT! Now that pisses me off and no one has done a damn thing about it.
At least we don’t have those STINKY CANADIANS!!!
MISHA, не надо нах@й…
“Ребята, давайте жить дружно!” (“Let’s live in friendship, guys”)
(the above is a quote from an old Soviet cartoon “Leopold the Cat” – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_the_Cat )
But I’m not very optimistic this is even possible… During last election season, my own relatives came within a step of physical assault because of me arguing that “f-ing ape” is not an acceptable characterization for a political candidate. So, unfortunately, Misha is hardly alone.
Meanwhile, just another day, a black woman on the B36 pretty much quoted Ann from above to me (maybe she WAS Ann?!).
So let’s summarize (based on blog postings and other anecdotal evidence): Whites hate Russians, Mexicans and Arabs; Russians hate Blacks and Arabs; Blacks hate Whites and Russians; and they all hate Teh Gayz.
Think of this when preparing “Peace on Earth” cards this holiday season…
Agreed. We have a long way to go before we will learn that all of us are in this together. Whatever we do to others, we do to ourselves. Our anger weakens us, our intolerances invalidate us. We live in a time when distance is no longer a barrier to communication, but we won’t communicate with our physical neighbors because they came from another country, or they were born in this country. We believe all sorts of people are “not like us”. We isolate ourselves into smug little groups of same-minded people. In the end, most of us become intolerant, many little realizing how much the poison of societal intolerance has permeated our thinking. I think it’s time to stand beside ourselves and ask-is this who we wish to be? Do we want to define ourselves by our hatreds?
Let’s stop seeing people as labels and start seeing them as human beings. Perhaps we can even start to understand why people behave the way they do. Maybe we can actually find the good in people that we assumed to be hostile and unreachable. Lets try to take that with us wherever we go and to whoever we meet. We start some real communication in the real world.
This thread is great. I grew up here in the 90′s just finishing college now. My parents can not stand “The Russians” to the point where they are basically racist. My favorite quote was probably when my mother’s friend asked when her daughter would get some “American friends”.
Brooklyn has and hopefully will remain a borough of ethnic neighborhoods. Yes, I’m not going to lie I do miss the Sheepshead Bay from my early childhood when the Bay was full of boats and Emmons Avenue and Sheepshead Bay Rd. were a little more blue-collar and family-oriented but neighborhoods change. I love going out to eat in Carroll Gardens and god knows there are some Italian families ready to complain about the designer stroller crew over there or the Western European immigrants opening their fancy restaurants to cater to the designer stroller crew.
It’s never easy for things to change but recently I’ve begun to become somewhat thankful for the changes the Russian immigrants have brought to Sheepshead. Linguistic barrier aside, the changes they’ve made might actually make Sheepshead more appealing to people moving to Brooklyn. The Russian community has demanded nice restaurants, nice shopping and nice apartments. Recent college grads (and I’m talking the ones going to Bushwick or Williamsburg right now) might rather live in a nice building by the Bay and eat sushi and shop at Loehmanns than live in Bushwick. There’s an Armani Exchange in the plaza now and guess why we probably have it? Thank you Russian Community!
I’m not thrilled some Russian businesses are “unfriendly” to non-Russians but that’s a Brooklyn problem. I’ve gotten stared down by the Orthodox in Borough Park and the Chinese in Bensonhurst, this is nothing new. Frankly this also affects the older generation more. When I was in HS at Midwood most people got along despite their ethnic differences. I had friends who were Russian, West Indian, etc. and yes I didn’t know Russian or Creole but it didn’t end our friendships. There is something to be said also for trying to keep your language alive in America too. I didn’t love when the girls in my classes told secrets in Russian but at the some time I kind of wish I could’ve told secrets to the other Jewish kids in Yiddish (and btw I’m Ashkenazi and half Russian and totally rock the shut-up and just pretend your Russian technique in Sheepshead- shout out to people who do it too haha).
What Ned said is right- someone needs to organize some get together to experience the Russian establishments in Sheepshead and Brighton. The Russian kids in my HS used to bring their non-Russian friends down to Brighton or for a night out at Baku Palace and they just spoke for them- I doubt the waiter spit in their food or drinks because they were a non-Russian. Like I said about keeping a language alive as one Russian girl said in my high school “You’re Russian but you don’t speak Russian, that’s a shame.” I don’t think we have a right to be mad at a community for wanting to keep its heritage alive. Maybe if we all just tried to learn more about each other (and by this I mean the old-school Sheepshead natives and the new Russian inhabitants) we’d get along better.
I’m just going to end on what I said before. We’re getting a Starbucks. We have a Cold Stone. We have that ridiculously expensive Steakhouse on Emmons. We have some semblance of a froyo place. You can buy designer clothes at Loehmanns and Downtown. Love it or hate it, these are the things the trust-fund kids are going to want when they come down here if they ever do (and god-willing they will). The Russian immigrants’ expensive taste (regardless of where they get the money to pay for it) has helped keep our neighborhood with the times and that’s a big deal. We’re too far from the city to be attractive, at least we’ve got the infrastructure to entertain the new “Brooklyn immigrants”.
SD, Ned needs more writers. Are you still living around here?
Further to my comment above, I enjoy going to Ginger Rose despite the subtle xenophobia. The atmosphere of snobbiness does take some getting used to, but pride is a big part of their culture and I find the displays of cockiness to be somewhat attractive. But I’m 27 and I’ve been going there since I was 13 years old, so Russian or not, I feel like I belong. And if you think I’m racist against Russian-speaking people, please think again. I’m under the impression that Russians are some of the sexiest people I’ve ever encountered: bold, confident, very competitive, but generally good-hearted, as a culture. I go to Sheepshead every weekend, rather than the city, because of all the eyecandy walking around, blasting electronic music, dressing trendily, driving expensive cars, and of course the local establishments like J & J Happy Nail Salon, Chicken Masters, Roll N’ Roaster, Stop and Shop and other local joints. Combined these experiences make Sheepshead Bay my absolute favorite neighborhood in Brooklyn. I wouldn’t want it any other way. Oh yeah – once you date Russian, you’ll never go back.
You might never go back but you’ll almost certainly go broke!
You people need to get over yourselves. You see some Russian who isn't nice to you and you assume that it's because you don't speak the language. Newsflash: the ones that are rude to you are rude to Russians as well. That is probably the kind of people they are. Why on earth would Russians look down on non Russians?? They came to this country for a reason!
Although you may have a point about items in stores being labeled only in Russian. This is stupid from an economical sense.
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